i know that 3rd pos. has been covered well on this site, as is the case with most all subjects concerning blowing your horn. i understand blowing 3rd over a minor progression, but am a bit confused about some things when using 3rd over a major. i understand that blues with its flat 3rd is a kind of minorish anyway and 2nd is played over major. i question is when playing 3rd over major, does the root of the 3rd pos. being the one, four, and eight draw, still resolve. i mean to say if the band is playing in G, which is the 2 draw, how can i resolve in 3rd on the 1 hole which is C ? or perhaps maybe 3rd can be played only on the IV and V chords? maybe i don't even know what i'm talking about...help!
Having some slight difficulty understanding the question but I'll take a shot at helping.
So the band is in Gmaj, for example, playing I, IV, V blues. I chord is GBD, IV chord is CEG, V chord is DF#A.
So you want to play 3rd position over this, that is to say on an F key harmonica. On Richter tuned harmonica, the I chord root note, G, will be the 1, 4, & 8 draw. IV chord root note, C, will be the 2 draw, 6 blow, 9 blow. The V chord, D, will be the 3 double bend draw, 6 draw, 10 draw.
The 3rd position blues scale is the same as the 2nd position blues scale, the notes are just at different spots on the harmonica and can feel different when played.
There are a couple of ways to do it. First, get the correct harp for the key of the tune. If the band is in C, for example, use a Bb harp.
Ok, D1 B2 D2* D2/B3 D3** D3 D4* D4 B4 is complete MAJOR (do-re-mi) scale. You can play completely major.
In the middle and upper registers the available scale has a flat third and a flat seventh (Dorian mode) which will work over major blues and a lot of other major material that employs a dominant seventh.
It ain't very complicated.
Last Edited by hvyj on Mar 03, 2017 4:39 PM
I have been using 3rd a bit lately. Its natural mode is Dorian, which is quite similar to minor, but in the first octave, you can easily get all of the notes of the major scale. This makes it a very versatile position.
If you're playing in a major key in 3rd Position, at some stage you will want to hit that major third. In Richter it's 2 draw semitone bend, 5 overblow and 9 blow bend.
In case you're interested, 3rd Position Minor and Major can sound great in PowerBender tuning. In the video below I play 3rd Position Minor from 4:03-5:12, and then 3rd Position Major immediately after, from 5:14-6:14. Totally different flavours:
there is some tremendous knowledge from some extraordinarily talented harp players on this site and i thank you all for the help!!! yeah the wording of my question was a bit confusing, sorry! if the band is playing in G major, the tonic being G of course, playing 3rd on an F harp the tonic is the 1, 4,and 8 draw, which are all G. so it does not matter if the band is in major or minor. 3rd pos. can be used for either. NOW THEN, weaving in and out between 3rd. and 2nd. ( some songs being written in maj. and minor ) does this take 2 harps?
The simple answer for you at your level may be - yes, one harmonica in 2nd position, a different harmonica to play in 3rd position - when the song is in G. ---------- The Iceman
Hi Pimike – a quick answer is that in 3rd position your root is always on 1, 4, and 8 draw no matter if the tune is major or minor and will "resolve" as you put it. You need to use the right harp so if the tune is in G then you need an F harp.
In terms of playing in 3rd over a major, the loose rule is that you can play a minor scale over a major tune and it will generally sound ok, if you play a major scale over a minor tune it will sound bad. (It is posible to play a major scale in 3rd position but it requires overblows).
I quite like the sound of 3rd position minor over some major stuff, it can add a kind of jazzy feel especially in a blues context.
Try it out over some backing tracks, use your ears and see what you think.
I hope this help answer your questions.
Last Edited by Baker on Mar 06, 2017 10:01 AM
Well, it depends. If a tune modulates between G major and E minor, you can play G major in second position and E minor in fifth position on the same harp in the key of C. That same C harp wil also give you A minor (fourth position) and D Dorian/minor (third position).
If the tune modulates from a major key to its parallel minor (for example G major to G minor) it sorta depends on how long the minor interlude is. If it's not extended and you have good ability to bend to pitch, you can stay in second position and bend draw 3 for the minor third and avoid draw 7 (major third) and blow 2, 5 and 8 (major 6). Of course major 6 is not an avoid note if the tune is Dorian. If you've got to stay in the parallel minor for a while or you don't have the ability to consistently bend to pitch, then it may be better strategy to use 2 harps or simply lay out for that portion of the tune.
Of course it depends on the tune, but for minor key playing in general I prefer 5th position over 3rd especially for minor blues because the minor 6th is built in. But that's probably a minority view. There's different kinds of minors. Third is perfect for Dorian minors, not as good IMHO for natural minors. Most minor blues are natural minors. Harmonic minor is playable in fourth, fifth and third.
The limitation of third position for playing minor is the limited availability of the minor 6th.
Last Edited by hvyj on Mar 06, 2017 10:50 AM
