Ian
385 posts
Dec 04, 2016
4:28 AM
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OK, so despite me being super average, my brother in law, his mate and myself are going to play a few small gigs over Christmas.
Really excited, but also aware that my home practice rig doesnt have enough volume.
So at the moment I have a blackstar ht1r, which is a 1watt tube amp. Great tone, but really only for home volume levels.
What's the best option for me to get more volume for a pub sized gig?
I know that most won't have a PA.
It seems to me my options are....
Do I get a good 5 to 10 watt standalone tube amp?
Do I get a something cheaper that I can plug my line out from the blackstar in to?
What's best?
Thanks
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jbone
2217 posts
Dec 04, 2016
4:56 AM
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Are your mates plugging in? When I do small gigs, if partners are acoustic I do as well.
Less hassle than a medium or big amp would be a mic to p.a. or line from an amp you like the tone of, to p.a. When Jo and I play small venues as a duo we take 12w tube amps and a small p.a. for vocals as well. But when we can avoid lugging stuff we just do acoustic.
You probably know Ian, when you play acoustically you improve your chops and dynamics. It also can serve to bring interested people close to the tip jar.
Amp wise we use Silvertone 1482's from the 60's, lucky to have them. I use either a Shure 585 ball mic or a small modded EV mic. If it's a question of no amps but a p.a. I try and have a dedicated channel and an sm57 to blow through. Best on a stand so I can do more hand effects.
Whatever you decide, I hope you have a great season!
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Ian
386 posts
Dec 04, 2016
6:02 AM
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Thanks for the advice. The others will be plugged in, we have a drummer/vocalist and a guitarist... And me!
I know one of the venues quite well and it's not all that small really, lots of corners and a bar right in the middle so we will need some volume.
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jbone
2218 posts
Dec 04, 2016
8:43 AM
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Do you like the tone on your small amp? You can maybe line it to p.a. or just use a low-z mic like the sm57 straight in to the p.a.
I do love the warm sound of a tube amp/hot high-z mic but it's just not always what I need. More than a couple of instruments probably needs amplification of some kind.
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Goldbrick
1702 posts
Dec 04, 2016
8:46 AM
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If the drummer is playing with sticks( not rods or brushes)
You want at least 15 tube watts or 60 solid state
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Ian
387 posts
Dec 04, 2016
4:31 PM
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@jbone. Yes I do like the tone of my little amp, so I could line out but I'm not sure we will have pa access all the time. So I was thinking either get a bigger cheap so amp to line out to or just a bigger amp!
@goldbrick. Thanks for the bare numbers on that one, gives me an idea of what to go for. I'm guessing he will be using sticks.
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Littoral
1437 posts
Dec 05, 2016
3:32 AM
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Gnarly is right, you need power. Problem then is in the other direction, how do you get the sound you want at low enough volume? Given the amp you like I'd suggest a clean solid state amp with a pedal to model"tone".
Last Edited by Littoral on Dec 05, 2016 3:32 AM
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Killa_Hertz
1973 posts
Dec 05, 2016
5:00 AM
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Quick Question. Don't mean to hijack the thread I just want clarity on something, as it came up it another thread aswell.
Gnarly you say 15 Tube Watts or 60 Solid State.
Can you explain why there is such a difference?
Again sorry if this seems like a thread derailment, but I just had to ask.
Last Edited by Killa_Hertz on Dec 05, 2016 7:39 AM
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Fil
229 posts
Dec 05, 2016
6:25 AM
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Could you use a powered speaker, as discussed on the Beginner Forum? By this I mean line out to a powered speaker.
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Phil Pennington
Last Edited by Fil on Dec 05, 2016 10:20 AM
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Goldbrick
1703 posts
Dec 05, 2016
7:51 AM
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technically watts are watts but tube amps have more musical headroom than the average SS amp
This splains it pretty well from the tube amp faq
Are Tube Amps louder than solid state amps of the same power?
Yes and no. If you put a power meter on the output of a tube amplifier and a solid state amplifier that have been matched for total output power, then the meter will read almost exactly the same power for equivalent drive conditions - so in this sense, the answer is no, they are not louder. However, if you LISTEN to the two amps, you'll find that the tube amp does indeed sound louder to your ears, in opposition to what the meter is telling you. Why?
It's tied up in the sensing instrument - that is, your ear. The way the human ear works is that it is very sensitive to the harmonic content of a sound. A tube amp is less linear (that is, has more distortion) at signal levels below clipping than a solid state amplifier. The distortion will increase slowly, and then more rapidly as the amp starts to clip. In fact, the distortion increases so gradually and is of such a benign nature that the onset of audible distortion has no easily defined threshold. The solid state amplifier on the other hand has no such gradualism. It is almost perfectly non-distorting right up to the point that it clips, and then it clips HARD. It's easy to hear the threshold.
This sudden onset of distortion is also composed of relatively harsh sounding distortion, not like the subtle second and third harmonics of the tube amp. The human ear hears the sudden harsh distortion as clipping and harshness. It interprets the low order distortion of the tube amp as a louder sound, not as distortion. In effect, the tube amp fools the ear into thinking that its early distortion is more loudness. They therefore sound louder or more powerful than the actual measurements show are really there.
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Ian
388 posts
Dec 05, 2016
8:17 AM
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@littoral. I wouldn't get rid of the little amp, it's great for home practice as it can get real dirty without any pedals.
It may make sense to get a bigger ss amp for these kind of occasions. I have a pedal that will help with the tone.
Can anyone recommend a ss or hybrid amp with good tone that isn't crazy expensive that would work? 60watts seems a hell of a lot but I'm happy to take your advice.
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MindTheGap
1916 posts
Dec 05, 2016
8:55 AM
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Re the tube vs SS amp, I think that explanation is the nub of it, but it's a bit confused. I think that the point is that when you turn up the tube amp into its soft-distortion zone (because you can) you do actually get more electrical RMS watts out of it. I reckon if you put a meter on it you'd see that.
In other words, a tube and SS amp both producing the same electrical power, below where they start to distort, would sound the same volume, but you can turn up the tube amp louder because it still sounds good.
And that's for a broadly clean sound. When it's a gritty sound it is into clipping, and we can still like that from a tube. That's even more RMS power as it approaches a square wave.
Happy to be corrected by someone who knows for definite.
Last Edited by MindTheGap on Dec 05, 2016 9:03 AM
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