|
Dirty-South Blues Harp forum: wail on! >
Epiphone line out?? Pa or amp?
Epiphone line out?? Pa or amp?
Page:
1
snowman
226 posts
Dec 02, 2016
11:50 AM
|
Hi everyone,
Few questions
1] If I put a “line out “ in the 4 ohm spkr out-on an –
Epiphone valve junior—I then would have my 16 ohm speaker still plugged in?
So if I use my new ” line out” to go to PA and my speaker together, at same time is that right?
2]So I now have my epi as a monitor and pa as main volume? Is that right?
3]The speaker gives the amp the load it needs , to not fry?
4] but again ---both at same time, correct?
I’ve had major ‘feedback problems’ using my epi speaker out to a 12” ext spkr—8 ohm
Also using the 8” speaker --in the unit
The places we play make it difficult to position the ‘epi amp’ away from me either physically away or pointing away Im at least 8-12 ft from the amp
I’ve used Lone wolf feedback pedal and another feedback pedal I bought years ago Minimal success?
I’ve used my CM chopped turner and or audix fireball---both w/ volume control
2 totally different mics –thought about putting thin cardboard in front of cm element?
Rod Piazza use to do that
5]Should I try super low volume on mic as well?
After all these years this is the first time in a band , I get to play [HARP ONLY, WOO HOO ]
‘no guitar w/rack thru PA”
So Im considerably less experienced at this, than a lot of you
6] Also thinking about getting a “Weber Mini Mass’
and using it as spkr load, as well as line out from epi to PA—
No speaker on amp behind me to feedback
Use monitor only [which is in front of me] facing away from mic? Any suggestions?
Please feel free to give advise on any the remedies I may try this weekend;
Until I get my ‘line out ’ don’t use epi at all—
Instead go straight to PA using pedal chain as
follows:
1] LW HarpShield
2] LW Flat cat [mostly for leads]
3] LW harp Break [for levels of dirt]
4] LW harp octave [not always used, cuz of harp
break]
5] LW Harp Delay [always on mostly slap back]
6] sonic stomp [mostly for leads]
Monitor in front of me
Have LW Harp Tone+ [not using now but have used early in chain b4]
Squeal killer???
Open to any and all suggestions
Thanks again ahead of time
Last Edited by snowman on Dec 02, 2016 11:53 AM
|
SuperBee
4316 posts
Dec 02, 2016
12:55 PM
|
Just want to be clear: you mean you are gonna install an actual ' line out' in the amp and use the jack currently allocated for 4 ohm speaker?
If so, that's fine. You can run a line out to PA and leave your combo speaker connected to the 16 ohm outlet.
Don't plug an extra speaker into the amp. Only run one speaker connection at a time. Don't run the 16 ohm speaker and also plug an 8 ohm extension speaker cab in. That's not how it works. You can run an external speaker, but disconnect the internal speaker when you do that.
I don't remember the rest of the post so I'll leave it at that
|
rainman
200 posts
Dec 02, 2016
1:10 PM
|
I have a Jr. and I have done exactly what you propose to do. It works well if the band will play at a decent volume.
|
SuperBee
4317 posts
Dec 02, 2016
1:11 PM
|
Oh, feedback. There's just a threshold. If you can't get the amp loud enough to hear without feeding back, there are things to try but the main one is a bigger amp. The other main one is don't use an amp.
Feedback is about what is being picked up by your mic and reamplified.
If you're gonna use the amp lined out to PA and it's feeding back the feedback 'could' be about the volume of your amp, or the volume of the PA foldback. I usually find foldback is more of a consideration. I try to avoid foldback if I have an amp on stage. If you can't hear your amp on stage, my attitude is what is the point of that amp. I know, kinda like a tube preamp for the PA, gets a sound you like. That's ok, but if you can't hear it, just get it out of the way so it doesn't cause problems. Point it at the drummer or something
You'll likely have less trouble with line out than you would if you put a mic in front of the amp.
Last Edited by SuperBee on Dec 02, 2016 1:17 PM
|
dougharps
1311 posts
Dec 02, 2016
2:27 PM
|
Snowman, like SuperBee above, your use of "line out" in quotes makes me wonder if you have actually changed the output of your speaker jack to a real line out, or if you have the idea of just using the 4ohm speaker output AS a line out. There are significant differences in speaker output and line out. You can't just safely plug speaker output into a PA. Hopefully my concern is misplaced and you have installed an appropriate line out circuit and re-purposed the 4ohm jack.
I am assuming that SuperBee is using the term "PA foldback" to mean putting your signal in the stage monitors. PA foldback may be a common term in OZ. I haven't heard that term around Illinois, but it makes sense. He is correct that putting the signal back through the monitors onto the stage with your amp speaker increases the possibility of feedback through the mic.
Your pedal train seems to have a lot of pedals that could increase gain and particularly high frequencies in your signal. Have you tried adding, subtracting, and re-ordering the pedals to see if one is too gainy or bright thus increasing feedback? Have you spent time adjusting the settings on each. When I used pedals more I would work on adding one at a time and adjusting before adding another. Each mic/amp/speaker combination has its own characteristics, and each pedal changes the mix with regard to feedback thresholds. Some sound modifications using effects can only be played at low volume levels without risking feedback.
Finally, when you state "monitor in front of me" are you referring to a PA monitor in addition to the amp?
I have used a mic'd amp, tilted back toward the stage, as the only monitor. Since it is not behind me, it doesn't get into the mic as easily.
Finally, the most feedback resistant mic for harp I have ever found is the Shure 585SAV. In my experience, the SM57, Audix Fireball V, and bullets of all kinds feed back more easily than the 585SAV. I can get more volume before feedback from any amp, actual volume not amp settings, with the 585SAV high-z mic with volume control. However, though it breaks up some, it is cleaner than a bullet.
----------
Doug S.
Last Edited by dougharps on Dec 02, 2016 2:31 PM
|
snowman
227 posts
Dec 02, 2016
3:51 PM
|
thanks so far u guys--
Im gonna use proper caps etc and make 4ohm a line out -while keeping the 16 ohm internal spkr plugged in for the load ---
may build an insulated box to deaden the sound and put it in front of the spkr-- kinda lame tho---
for this weekend THINK im just gonna use pedal board thru the PA-to simplify-just use monitor
may give up on sonic max--it seems to lean toward what yr talkin bout doug
have played with gain and volume with the harp break and flat cat-- medium levels or so on those -nothin really super driven-----try to match volume to same [when pedal on or off]--
u got me thinken about monitor with amp feedback[foldback]--
its hard Im still mostly single w/ rack---
band thing at most couple times a month=
they don't set up till later -I like during day way b4 especially for harp---
I really appreciate yr guys help and being specific-ie using 4ohm as line out w/ out caps etc-being not good
anybody used the weber attenuater as line out to amp--then I;d have a dummy load-- no spkr behind me and I can crank the pa volume -Hopefully-
u guys seem to know what yr talkin about --What about mic turned way down---but then not much goin into amp when I use it--
"I have used a mic'd amp, tilted back toward the stage, as the only monitor. Since it is not behind me, it doesn't get into the mic as easily."
Iw ill try that --thanks
"585SAV high-z mic"
prices vary on ebay 30 160 dollars--I f I look more into it should it have volume?
thanks rainman
I've given up on the band paling at a decent volume
I/ll keep pluggin
superbee I can't hear it -hence possibly line out only
keep posting tips Thanks
|
SuperBee
4318 posts
Dec 02, 2016
7:25 PM
|
Maybe Collard has his amp down In front here as Doug describes. It's a valve jr which is why I thought of it. I asked him if he was using the amp or PA to monitor and he said 'both'. You can see he is favouring a particular point on stage to hear himself. I can't see the amp anywhere so maybe that's just what he has done:
Ian Collard with band, playing through 5 watt epiphone valve jr
|
dougharps
1312 posts
Dec 02, 2016
9:50 PM
|
@snowman
The 585SAV is high-z with built in volume control and a screw on connector. It isn't magic, but the most feedback resistant I have found.
Have you tried different mics with the amp and no pedals to see what works best? Do you use an impedance matching transformer with the Fireball?
Finally, if the band is loud, you might need a bigger, more powerful amp. You can only push an amp so far before feedback.
----------
Doug S.
Last Edited by dougharps on Dec 03, 2016 8:42 AM
|
Post a Message
|
