John M G
83 posts
Nov 06, 2016
3:16 PM
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I'd just like to know without starting any kind of debate on lip pursing or tongue blocking merits if it's actually possible to make overblows and overdraws using tongue blocking technique?
Now that I'm getting some reliable overblows and have finally started making progress with overdraws depending on what harp I use. It was one of those "I wonder how" moments while I was practicing some TB basic draw bends that are still pretty vague and week. There's no way I could make a blow bend tongue blocked and so the thought of making overbends seemed like an impossible concept?
So, can it be done? It will add another significant wow factor to my playing technique knowledge base if it is the case!
Cheers JG
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tmf714
2936 posts
Nov 06, 2016
3:29 PM
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YES--it can be done. One of the most proficient tongue block overblowers is Dennis Gruenling.
I also rmemeber taking a class with Howard Levy-one of my friends demonstrated tounge block overblows-Howard was quite surprise at his ability and the clarity of the overblows.
Last Edited by tmf714 on Nov 06, 2016 3:30 PM
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The Iceman
2971 posts
Nov 06, 2016
4:32 PM
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Even though it can be done, as proficient as I am in understanding techniques, I am unable to achieve this. So, it may be one of those techniques that is not readily accessible to all players - at least, have not found a road to success and have not seen any instructions how to that prove to be doable. (for example, I can not roll my tongue to make that sound that so many seem to be able to do)
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The Iceman
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David Herzhaft
61 posts
Nov 06, 2016
4:52 PM
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It can be done though it is not as effective as plucking so unless you have a very good reason to do it I would simply work on the standard technique used I would say by 99% of the good overblowers.
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David Herzhaft
www.davidherzhaft.com
https://www.youtube.com/davidherzhaft
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Mirco
435 posts
Nov 06, 2016
4:56 PM
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Yes.
It will be more difficult to start TB overblowing/overbending for people who didn't start in a TB embouchure. But if you've been playing in a TB style, if you learned in that way, TB overblows and overbends should be no more difficult.
What's the reason for a TB overblow? I see one of the main reasons for TB to be the usage of chordal effects (such as slaps and pulls). If you're doing overblows and overdraws in a particular run, you're probably not employing those chordal techniques.
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Marc Graci
YouTube Channel
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Killa_Hertz
1872 posts
Nov 06, 2016
7:37 PM
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Yes Mirco, but learning to do overblows in both embouchures would make it so you wouldn't HAVE to switch back and forth all of the time.
I don't overblow yet, but I have been learning to bend TB. And while i usually switch back to LP for all my bends, in some licks/songs/rhythms its just a pain. So i would assume overblows are the same way. I switch embouchures constantly. Sometimes multiple times in a run. So if i could learn to execute tb bends as well as i can pursed bends, it would make things alot easier.
8pwqne
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timeistight
2056 posts
Nov 06, 2016
7:51 PM
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Tongue-blocked overblows and overdraws are definitely doable; I can play them on a good harp and I'm no Dennis Gruenling.
I prefer to tongue block unless I need to pucker. Learning to overblow tongue blocked gives me one less situation where I need to switch.
Last Edited by timeistight on Nov 07, 2016 8:05 AM
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John M G
84 posts
Nov 06, 2016
9:22 PM
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Wow! I really am amazed.
All the subtleties you have to use as a lip purser with the tip of your tongue just in the cavity of your mouth needed to control overbends and overdraws, as a puckerer would initially seem to make it an impossible task using a TB embouchure.
Of course that was based on my attempts to make simple regular blow bends with the TB technique, they just defeat me so how could anyone possibly be able to make overbends! well now I know and I was very wrong.
So so much to learn and too few years left to do it in :-(
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SuperBee
4247 posts
Nov 06, 2016
9:56 PM
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Yes, I overblow 6 with TB embouchure. I don't really bother with 4 and 5.
When I asked Jimi Lee about it he said he hadn't considered it, but he tried it there on the spot and was managing quite well. He even said he thought it may be more controllable. He may have also changed his mind about that.
Wasn't there someone (Michael Andrew Lo?) who practiced tb ob every day for six months as a project and reported back here, quite proficient? Maybe I dreamed that.
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Michael Rubin
1130 posts
Nov 08, 2016
4:49 AM
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I also am TB overblow challenged. Anyone have a detailed explanation as to what they are physically doing?
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WinslowYerxa
1238 posts
Nov 08, 2016
7:16 AM
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Pay attention to how you play the high blow bends with a tongue block. Whatever you do to create a small enough oral chamber to tune that chamber to the bent note is very similar to what you do to tune your mouth for an overblow.
Take a Bb-harp and bend Blow 7 down. You'll get a very shallow bend, but a bend nonetheless. It will be lower than a Bb but higher than an A.
Now take a C-harp and apply the same bend to Blow 6. The overblow will a flattish Bb, similar in pitch to the bend on the Bb harp.
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Winslow
Check out my blog and other goodies at winslowyerxa.com
Harmonica For Dummies, Second Edition with tons of new stuff
Join us in 2017 for SPAH in Tulsa!
Last Edited by WinslowYerxa on Nov 08, 2016 7:16 AM
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timeistight
2058 posts
Nov 08, 2016
8:20 AM
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What Winslow said.
In my case, I'm humping part of my tongue immediately behind the block toward the roof of my mouth. If I slow the process down I hear the blow note sound, start to bend down and then choke before the draw reed pops in wth the overblow.
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The Iceman
2972 posts
Nov 08, 2016
8:24 AM
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Darn. I can't TB blow bend high notes. Guess I'm out of the TB OB club.
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The Iceman
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WinslowYerxa
1239 posts
Nov 08, 2016
8:40 AM
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To get into tongue blocked high blow bends, start with the lowest pitched harp you own. Try touching the front part of the tongue, right behind the tip, to the roof of your mouth, then work the space behind it, raising additional parts of the tongue to make the chamber smaller.
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Winslow
Check out my blog and other goodies at winslowyerxa.com
Harmonica For Dummies, Second Edition with tons of new stuff
Join us in 2017 for SPAH in Tulsa!
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mr_so&so
1056 posts
Nov 08, 2016
10:19 AM
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After starting out lip pursing, I switched to tongue blocking after a few years and now am a full-time TB player. As others have said it is indeed possible to TB blow bends and overbends. It is "easier" to get both of those techniques LP, but if you work at it TB can work too.
My tip for TB overblows is to initiate the OB with back pressure support from the diaphram. Tuning the oral chamber and tongue gymnastics is something I am less focused on, although I notice that it seems to matter more on higher harps. Generally I let my mouth/tongue learn to adjust to produce a resonant note for the particular harp key I'm using.
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Michael Rubin
1131 posts
Nov 08, 2016
2:17 PM
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WOW! I have just overblown hole 6 following Winslow's clue.
Thanks everyone!
Last Edited by Michael Rubin on Nov 08, 2016 2:23 PM
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Michael Rubin
1132 posts
Nov 08, 2016
2:31 PM
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I can get a C harp and a B harp on 6. I can do it poorly on a Bb.
It definitely is not the same tongue position as when I tongue block normally. Instead of comfortably blocking 3 holes to the left I am blocking one or two to the left and the tongue is curving right. Perhaps it will ease into my regular TB method.
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