hvyj
3153 posts
Nov 06, 2016
12:12 PM
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So, a friend of mine who has a very successful band has been having the band tune to A432 instead of A440. I just had a set of harps tuned to A434 so I would be able to play with them. When I tried the re-tuned harps at home by myself, I thought they sounded very pleasant, especially in the higher keys. Much less strident.
I sat in with my friend's band last night and the re-tuned harps sounded great. Very nice resonance. And the whole band sounded musicly smoother, for lack of a better word. I find this tuning very appealing.
EDIT: By "smoother" I mean everything seemed to blend better and sounded more even.
Anyone else have experience with A432?
Last Edited by hvyj on Nov 06, 2016 6:55 PM
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The Iceman
2969 posts
Nov 06, 2016
12:41 PM
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so, which is it? 442 or 432?
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The Iceman
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STME58
1865 posts
Nov 06, 2016
1:11 PM
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Once you answer Iceman's question we will all have a better understanding of your question. But in general terms, I suspect small changes in pitch are probably not noticeable, unless two different notes close to each other are played together and the beating gives away the fact they are different. If the whole band is in tune at 440 or 442, I don't think many people could tell the difference, but if part of the band is at 440 and others are at 442, that would make for a different sound, for better or worse.
I found this artice on the subject informative.
Last Edited by STME58 on Nov 06, 2016 1:12 PM
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The Iceman
2970 posts
Nov 06, 2016
1:21 PM
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The evolution of this set reference point is based on orchestral considerations.
If memory serves me right, A-435 used to be the standard pitch for orchestras back in the 1800's.
Raising it to 440 and even 442 (perhaps as high as 444) is one response to brightening up the music for the listener as time moves forward. The 442 - 444 is in play in Europe more so than in the US.
I ran into a 442 standard for a Steinway Grand used at an IAJE Convention in CA about 12 years ago. Piano was moved out of a major LA recording studio to the main stage of this Jazz event. I was in charge of all pianos used, so had the task of prepping this piano for the jazz concert. However, artist requested 440, so I had to lower the pitch and then tune. This indicates to me that the 442 standard was in play for at least some LA recording studios.
So, if raising the pitch "brightens" the music, I would assume that lowering it to 432 would give the result of less bright or the "less strident" comment as stated in the original post.
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The Iceman
Last Edited by The Iceman on Nov 06, 2016 1:24 PM
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Thievin' Heathen
868 posts
Nov 06, 2016
1:48 PM
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You stated, " I just had a set of harps tuned to A434 so I would be able to play with them". The very pleasant sound you are experiencing might merely be well tuned harps, which is something you might never experience with OOTB harps. I doubt it's the 6 hertz reference freq. difference.
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nowmon
105 posts
Nov 06, 2016
2:05 PM
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440 was put in use in ISO 1953.Used for many years was 432 [Verdi`s A] ,Because it is in solfeggio harmony.there`s even a healing tone 528 in this. gregarian monks chanted in this scale,it goes much deeper, look it up.John Lennon used it abit too.
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hvyj
3154 posts
Nov 06, 2016
2:38 PM
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@Iceman: 442 in the last sentence was a typo which I just corrected. The band tunes to A432. Since I sound in tune with a band tuned to A440 if my harps are tuned to A442, I figured harps tuned to A434 would put me in tune with a band tuned to A432.
@TH: You make a good point, but I have my various harps tuned often enough that I'm pretty sure that I was not just reacting to the harps being well tuned. There was a audible qualitative difference, most noticeable on the resonance of the low register bends on higher key harps. Not a night and day difference by any means, but certainly perceptible. And I don't consider myself to have a particularly refined ear.
@nowman: What do mean by a "healing tone at 528"?
FWIW, I read somewhere that some bluegrass bands tune to A446. As far as being able to hear a 6 or 8 hz difference Is concerned, harps tuned to A443 sound audibly sharp to me, and I don't consider myself to have a good ear. So, I wouldn't think that detecting a difference between A434 and A442 shouldpresent very much of a challenge.
Last Edited by hvyj on Nov 06, 2016 3:49 PM
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STME58
1866 posts
Nov 06, 2016
10:58 PM
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This topic can get quite weird as evidenced by this article. I can't tell if this author is straight up or a bit tongue in cheek, but he certainly has put a lot of the crazy theories, along with links to some some legitimate research on the topic, in one place.
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dougharps
1299 posts
Nov 07, 2016
7:36 AM
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Is there any video of you and the band playing at 432Hz tuning? I would be interested to see if there is a discernible difference in sound.
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Doug S.
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STME58
1867 posts
Nov 07, 2016
8:32 AM
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This is a nice quick demo 432 vs 440
At a certain point it beocmes semanitcs. Is that piece in E with A=415, or Eb with A=440? Both would have the same pitches in equal temperament. What key a piece is in becomes less critical when using equal temperament.
What would really be cool when using temperaments with more in tune fifths, would be to have a separate instrument for each key, with each instrument having the in tune fifths be the ones most common for that key. That of course would be highly impractical and can be dismissed out of hand! :-)
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hvyj
3157 posts
Nov 07, 2016
11:14 AM
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@dougharps: Plenty of people were taking video with phones but I haven't seen anything posted. Things went pretty well and there was wonderfully positive crowd reaction. I played most of the last set and the venue manager must have liked it because the house picked up the tab for my steak dinner and multiple drinks. The band has multiple vids on YT but I don't think any of them are from after they started tuning to A432, which was about 4 months ago.
The band is THE GOOD, THE BAD AND THE BLUES. They just won the Detroit Blues Challenge, and will be going to the IBC in Memphis for the fifth time. The last time they went they made the finals. They are playing THE HOUSE OF BLUES in Chicago this Saturday.
This is actually a pretty hard driving ensemble with a kick ass drummer and a bass player who also works with Rance Allen, the well known gospel singer. What I thought was remarkable was when I was standing more or less in front of the drum set and bass amp as the band was rocking out everything sounded very smooth and nicely blended. Usually the punch has more of an edge to it. I speculated that this was because of the A432 tuning, but that's just speculation.
Last Edited by hvyj on Nov 07, 2016 11:35 AM
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Mahcks
83 posts
Nov 07, 2016
1:56 PM
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Are you using 12tet, compromise, or JI?
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hvyj
3158 posts
Nov 07, 2016
5:02 PM
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@Mahcks: ET (Personally, I've never been enthusiastic about using a temperament that puts me out of tune with the rest of the band just so I can sound more in tune with myself if I play chords. Since most of my playing is with other musicians, and since I play multiple positions, I have a strong personal preference for ET).
@dougharps: just found a vid on FB of one of the tunes the band did before I got up to sit in. If anyone can tell me how to post a vid from FB I'll do it.
@Iceman, STME58, or anyone else: Any insight into how people with perfect pitch react to changes in the frequency basis (A440 vs. A432 vs. A444, etc.)?
Last Edited by hvyj on Nov 07, 2016 5:04 PM
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Jim Rumbaugh
1229 posts
Nov 08, 2016
1:25 PM
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IF the theory is correct
AND
allowing for doppler shift.
A marching band going away from you sounds better than when it was marching toward you.
hhmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.
:)
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theharmonicaclub.com (of Huntington, WV)
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The Iceman
2973 posts
Nov 08, 2016
1:44 PM
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hvyj:
My perfect pitch is not bothered by the frequency basis changes you describe.
The differences here are not great enough to affect the outcome.
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The Iceman
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