When you're performing, do you play practiced versions of solos, or wing it completely ala Frank Zappa? Quite an interesting, inspiring discussion here about the nature of performing live ...
Personally I'm in the in-the-moment/different-every-time camp. But that's mainly because I'm terrible at learning stuff note for note. Not sure if it's a legit issue with my gray matter, or if I'm just a lazy sod.
I am definitely in the Zappa, spur of the moment camp. For the exact reasons he gave. I play music because it’s fun. There’s something organic and special about playing live in front of an audience that makes cool things happen. Take the same exact audience you play in front of 1 night, and remove or add only 1 person, it’s a whole different vibe. Subtle perhaps. But different none the less. Sometimes my solos come out great. Sometimes they’re “average” and sometimes they flounder a little. But still…
Another thing about being in the spur of the moment camp, as we work on new techniques and learn new stuff, you get to add it right then and there. What may sound good in the woodshed may not work on stage. But the only way you’ll know is if you step off the edge and just play it. Let the ¼ notes fall where they may.
That's an interesting and refreshing take on things although I have to say Zappa's Guitar work had me baffled and didn't move me. I totally agree with his point on tired solos. It takes a brave soul to wing it because it can be spectacularly good or bad.
At the end of the day and to Paraphrase Zappa himself
'The Ultimate Rule ought to be: 'If it sounds GOOD to you, it's bitchin'; if it sounds BAD to YOU, it's shitty.'
As it relates to blues harp I like this approach on a Dave Barrett interview with Ali Kumar, but even then when the mood takes you why not every now and then take a leap of faith....
Everything I do is completely spontaneous. I have no idea what I am singing or playing and literally walk into the stories that emerge. It is like being a time traveler - very addictive and I wish there were others doing it so as to have peers to relate with. Most people who improvise do it in small bites around preset stuff. Also Jimmy Carl Black FZMI drummer was with me on and off for 8 years. He always dug my spontaneous approach to music. Walter ---------- walter tore's spontobeat - a real one man band and over 1 million spontaneously created songs and growing. I record about 300 full length cds a year in the Tunnel of Dreams Studio. " life is a daring adventure or nothing at all" - helen keller
Interesting take on things. IMO, although most everyone will say that they just wing it and play "spontaneously", we really aren't. No musician does. While at the cognitive level we may be "winging it" and not "thinking" about what we play, at the cerebral/cerebelar pathway we are just "regurgitating" very FIXED and well REHEARSED licks and phrases. I guess what I am trying to say, is that TECHNICALLY/PHYSIOLOGICAL speaking, nobody really ever "plays from the heart" ;)
The technical & physiological aspect is not the point here though right? Would you the same thing about someone who makes a moving, emotional speech? Technically and physiologically they are using words and sentence structures they've used before but so what? You can't discount what Zappa is saying about improvisation simply because he has learned how to play his instrument.
I dunno, maybe I just feel like arguing on the internet today. ;)
I love Zappa, he is my all-time favorite musician ever.
---------- 4' 4+ 3' 2~~~ -Mike Ziemba Harmonica is Life!
"I love Zappa, he is my all-time favorite musician ever."
@slaphappy It's reassuring to know that there are others here who can appreciate Zappa's music. Much more to be inspired by with musicians like Zappa than that Taylor Swift and Adele crap that gets tossed around on here as if we're all missing out.
Last Edited by Minor Blues on Apr 12, 2016 4:00 PM
Zappa first and foremost was a composer. He played within the skeleton ( progression ) he created and he knew what he wanted just like his buddy Captain Beefheart It just wasnt the same each time - based on his energy and emotions
He definitely was not pulling it out of his ass with no fore thought
Zappa was a provocateur so he would usually say combustable stuff- but he took his shit real seriously
I reckon I have rough formats for solos and usually end up producing a variation for the particular moment. Sometimes I know I've closely followed the formula.....and played the shit out of it (or not!)... Other times I feel more adventurous and confident if the gig is going well and do indeed take the piece to a higher more developed level that improves all future solos for that song! ( or i fuck it up a bit!)
@CarlA: you have an interesting point, but I think that's kind of like saying that no author or poet or speaker can write/compose/speak something freely because they have spent a lifetime using words to make sentences.
Zappa is full of self-righteous crap to say that playing a rehearsed solo is like a "9 to 5 and who needs that crap". I don't believe he never plays a song more than once. If he does he is repeating at least chords or lyrics, which would be his definition of 9 to 5 crap. Member here Watertore is the only person I am aware of who can make the claim of a different song every time but I bet he enjoys repeating riffs and solos that sounded great the first time Repetition is a huge part of music and musicianship. A solo or song containing the same series of notes can be repeated thousands of times with differences and improvements that make it interesting for the player and listener each time. I enjoy improvising a new solo every time I play certain songs, but others I have rehearsed solos that I play over and over and I am taking the same risk using tonal or dynamic variety as Zappa claims for his "new" solo.
I admire Zappa tremendously , and I am greatly impressed by his self-honesty. His response to the question about whether he's a "master guitarist" was spot on, preferring to describe himself as a "specialist". On that point, it's well known that Zappa began to compose material with sections he couldn't play, or at least not his own satisfaction, and went forth and hired ace guitarists Steve Vai and Mike Keneally to perform the advanced parts. For myself, I play what I know how to do and attempt, tune to tune, to mix it up to keep it fresh, but what I know how to play comes from those hours and hours and hours of practice . Admittedly, there are hundreds of licks and phrases and rhythmic things and ideas that I can play at will, but I offer up in an improv is inspired by musical context. To an extent , everyone who's any good at carrying a solo uses what they've practiced over and over ; the point of that is that when you think of an idea that comes to mind while you're playing , and the idea that comes after that and after that again, it's better to be able to GET TO THE PHRASES with ease so that it sounds good , is entertaining, is something that keeps a listener's attention. ---------- Ted Burke tburke4@san.rr.com
Like Zappa, absolutely! A true jammer plays with many folks and styles of music. I have never practiced licks nor payed attention to the greats. I just do what I do and it is forever changing. I feel that Frank Zappa is a master and I would listen to his music and opinion any day of the week. Songs like Wagon Wheel/All about that Bass...make me PUKE!!
Yeah trouble every day on freak out is probably it. He used that line and variations of it a bit. I had it in mind he used it in the torture never stops when he played in Sydney but maybe I'm just thinking of Norman Gunston (Gary McDonald) who was a guest on that gig
