Grey Owl
625 posts
Mar 23, 2016
11:50 AM
|
I was just messing round with my 5 Watt Vox DA5 guitar amp (I think they are out of production now) comparing two mics on the same settings. I have chosen the preset of Blues 3 and turned the gain and tone up a little to get some distortion.
The mics were the Shure 520DX Green bullet
and The Shure SM57 with an impedance convertor
Excuse the tongue blocking, I’m a newbie at this being a lifelong LP. I played roughly the same lick with the tightest cup I could manage on both samples, over the air and direct into Audacity Via a Zoom H2n recorder.
Not sure which one I prefer. EDIT Maybe the SM57.
SHURE 520DX Green Bullet
SHURE SM57
VOX DA5 Settings
Any preferences/thoughts?
YouTube
Last Edited by Grey Owl on Mar 23, 2016 11:55 AM
|
Martin
987 posts
Mar 23, 2016
12:49 PM
|
Is there really much of a difference? Maybe the 520 is a little dirtier?
Would have been interesting to listen to a sample with no pre-distortion.
Do you get much volume out of that Vox thing? I tried one once, but can´t recall all of those effects etc -- but I was probalby more interested in warmth.
|
Grey Owl
626 posts
Mar 23, 2016
1:48 PM
|
Martin. Its not bad at all. It's also got a handy 3 way switch for setting output to 0.5w, 1.5w and 5watt useful when you want a quieter setting for practice.
Yea I was going for a distorted type of sound here but it normally sounds quite mellow accoustically but a bit guitar like on the Clean 1 to Blues 3 settings.
I've just rushed this out Martin (Blues 1 is a cleaner setting) and I've considerably loosened the cup. So here is an example with a a Blues 1 setting with the SM57 only, once with a semi tight cup and then with a looser cup. I recorded direct to my Zoom handheld recorder this time rather than patch it direct through to Audacity.
Though HERE is quite a heavy effect acheived on this amp on Clean 1 with a tightly cupped custom Bullet mic by Ralf.
|
Martin
988 posts
Mar 23, 2016
3:48 PM
|
Thank you very much, Grey Owl.
Maybe I should have looked a bit closer at that DA5 ... especially since it´s now discontinued.
Sounds OK clean, as well as in Ralf´s more distorted take. (Quite surprising that is "clean?)
But it was forfeited on my part for a Roland -- and I´m quite happy with that one, although the palette of sounds on the Vox looks like good fun.
|
Grey Owl
630 posts
Mar 24, 2016
12:03 PM
|
When I first heard this a few years ago I contacted the guy and politely asked HOW!!?? He said it was mostly down to very good cupping technique. You can see when he plays how he seals everything off even using the side of his face to cover the lower holes when he moves up the harp. I think the custom harp helps the cause a bit too!
Listening to that vid again I feel I could have used a bit more treble but there again mine is a muckier setting than the clean and I was trying to get a broken up distortion anyway. Time to try the clean setting again on this and see if I can get somewhere close.....lighter distortion and more edge.
Last Edited by Grey Owl on Mar 25, 2016 2:06 PM
|
snowman
164 posts
Mar 25, 2016
6:35 PM
|
i like that little amp thanks sounded like the 57 would cut through the band better
|
Killa_Hertz
815 posts
Mar 25, 2016
6:51 PM
|
I just bought a DA5 last month. They are our of production, but you can still find em new.
I did a review on it in the beginner thread shortly after i got it.
Owl i typically use a Akai DM13 or an SM57 with an XFMR.
However i prefer blues 2. Its the bassman setting. If you check the vox website they tell you what the settings mean. The blues 3 has more dirt but it just is a bit heavy or something. I can't put my finger on it. But try these settings.
On ,5w
blues 2
gain @ about 1 or 2 oclock
tone @ about 9 oclock.
Master volume @ about 11
I use the onboard reverb sometimez aswell its not bad.
GREAT lil amp for home playing. I love it.
Lmk how you like those settings. Slightly less tone with the 57. But its just a starting point.
Edit: i mean slightly less tone on the amp because the 57 is a little better on the high end. I agree the 57 sounds better than the green gullet Btw. I like that lil bit of cut it has.
----------
"Trust Those Who Seek The Truth. Doubt Those Who Say They Have Found It."
Last Edited by Killa_Hertz on Mar 31, 2016 12:36 AM
|
Grey Owl
636 posts
Mar 26, 2016
10:29 AM
|
Cheers Snowman.
Thanks for those settings and info Killa I’m definitely going to play around with those as Blues 3 is a bit heavy. Yep I like the amp a lot too, it's very versatile. Variable wattage output, a separate flat mic input with it's own volume control (tried using it separately for vocals but it is a bit harsh - but could be used at a pinch - and also it has no effects available.) Loads of voices and cool effects on the guitar input with variable degree of control. Separate Aux in, Line out and it runs on batteries for busking as well!!
****************************************************
Another variable to add to the pot is that my Zoom H2n Hand held recorder which I used to record the first two samples rendered a pretty flat and sort of compressed recorded sound (to my ears anyway) and didn’t pick up the reverb from the DA5 very well. I sited the recorder a few feet away and then within about a foot of the amp and there wasn’t a lot of difference.
I then tried my Samsung Galaxy S3 Sound recorder which was more sensitive and picked up the sound well and reverb if not on the treble edge.
Anyhow as an experiment I thought I’d try using the Clean 1 Setting that Ralf used in the link above with the SM57 with added reverb rather than delay.
Here’s my glitchy attempts at Doug Jay’s Knucklehead recorded on my phone first then on the Zoom.
YouTube
Last Edited by Grey Owl on Mar 26, 2016 10:34 AM
|
Killa_Hertz
822 posts
Mar 26, 2016
12:58 PM
|
The zoom sounds good. It chopps the highs off. The reverb adds alot of high. The 57 does a bit also. They both sound good, i just prefer the zoom.
Have you tried recording line out on the da5? It works good. I also play it alot with headphones Plugged in, nobody can hear n you can rock out. It has a speaker emulator for the headphones/line out. I think that's why it sounds so good. Also it regulates the volume somehow. So that you can have gain and master as loud as you want/need and it wont make your ears bleed. But if you have it plugged into a mixer the volume/gain change makes a bigger impact. Dont ask me how. It just does. Lol. Probably because of the Pre s in the mixer.
Not ALOT of useful models or effects for harp, but the ones that do work sound pretty great. And you got the adj. Wattage. I love this lil amp. Oh and battery powered is great too. Tough to beat this lil guy for what it is. Mr. SO&SO Helped sell me on it. He talked it up so much. And for good reason.
Sorry i know its off topic.
----------
"Trust Those Who Seek The Truth. Doubt Those Who Say They Have Found It."
Last Edited by Killa_Hertz on Mar 26, 2016 1:03 PM
|
Grey Owl
637 posts
Mar 26, 2016
2:56 PM
|
Cheers Killa, haven't tried line out but will when I get a 1/4 inch to minijack adapter to my laptop. It might retain more of effects applied. Interesting you liking the Zoom. Probably my old ears not picking up the lower frequencies so easy ;)
The Shure/tone issue hasn't attracted much imput so i guess the vox fan club are free to let rip. I recall Mr So&so doing a nice YT review of the DA5 a while ago.
Got to try Hendrix voodoo child with the wah:)
Yep clean to blues are not bad
----------
YouTube
|
mr_so&so
1015 posts
Mar 28, 2016
6:00 PM
|
I guess my work here is done. Ralf's video is the one that sold me originally. I love this little amp. My video used a crappy mic. Now I use a vintage Shure element and like that better. Gray Owl, I liked all the sounds you got out of it.
----------
|
Grey Owl
640 posts
Mar 29, 2016
9:40 AM
|
Mr so&so I'm pleased that sounded ok to you. The trouble is I still don't really know what I'm after not having played amplified in Public, only acoustically. So I'm playing around hoping to stumble on something I really like and that others feel is ok.
I did like that broken up sound that Jodan Chudan used to post on this forum a while back but I don't know if a mic/Vox combo will be able to acheive that. Mind the Gap's recent example on the Joyo was nice.
I wanted to use the wah effect as a bit of a laugh on a sort of Voodoo Child riff but it didn't work so I tried the Chorus plus delay for a dirty crazy effort with a Blues 1 setting and SM 57 Mic. I cut the tone knob right back and had more than 12o'clock gain and about 20 to on the master. Recorded on the ZOOM about a foot from the amp.
This has turned into more of a vox DA5 thing than the relative merits of 2 Shure Mics. I prefer the SM57 though and will probably ditch the green bullet.
----------
YouTube
Last Edited by Grey Owl on Mar 29, 2016 9:51 AM
|
Killa_Hertz
889 posts
Mar 31, 2016
12:53 AM
|
Owl .. whats the tune you played above on the blues 1 setting?
Also i have a red howler mic i picked up on sale. Too cheap to pass up. $30 It sounds pretty good. But i decided the bullet mics arent really my style. Anyways the element can be replaced in your green bullet if you prefer the bullet to the stick. I know your aware of this, but just a thought.
----------
"THE BLUES IS STRONG WITH THIS ONE! "
|
Grey Owl
646 posts
Mar 31, 2016
3:28 AM
|
Killa
It was a slight reworking of the opening RIFF on Voodoo Child by Jimi Hendrix on the top and tail of the sample and a borrowed riff from Igor Flach in the middle bit.
Can't have too many mics :) I have an old AKG D3700 that I'll have to dig out again and try.
I've got to say that I am liking my new SM57 its very comfortable to hold. The Bullet is a bit of a monster in the hands but a different element would no doubt improve its tone. I think I'll stick with the SM57 for a while as its good for vocals too.
YouTube
|
Killa_Hertz
894 posts
Mar 31, 2016
5:35 AM
|
I love my 57. And my Akai DM13. Stick mics are much better IMO. Bullets are goofy to hold.
I really like what you did up there with the blues1. Imma have to learn and steal that.
If you need a cheap mic. As a backup, replacement, or just want a mic you can beat up and not care too much about. ( I know ive said it before and beat it to death) The PylePro PDMIC78 (SM57 COPY) Really is GREAT for the money. They can be had New for under $10 if you search. And the Akai DM13 is great. Real Dirty mic. They can be had cheap aswell. I just traded ross garren a couple mics for a LF Harp. He was shocked how well the akai sounded. Really Hard To Beat.
----------
"THE BLUES IS STRONG WITH THIS ONE! "
Last Edited by Killa_Hertz on Mar 31, 2016 5:38 AM
|
Grey Owl
648 posts
Mar 31, 2016
9:08 AM
|
Cheers, steal away, I did.
It's surprising these random mics you can pick up that sound good, I'll take a look at the above.
I bought a small sony condenser mic years ago for a minidisc player which were all the rage then. The mic wasn't cheap though. Anyway it's a pretty good mic as it happens and I've used it acoustically as well as cupped for a gritty sound.
YouTube
|
dougharps
1200 posts
Mar 31, 2016
9:38 AM
|
Different mics seem to work better with different amps. I think that cleaner mics work best with modeling amps and the PA. At least this has been my experience with different modelers I have tried. Overall I tend to prefer cleaner mics for my sound, except when I am playing all deep blues and need the specific sound of a bullet into a tube amp. I play chromatic and diatonic.
In days past, with no one else home, I would get out several amps and several mics and mix and match to find the best pairings. You can get a lot of experience in dialing in your favorite sounds by doing that. If you can pick up a mic cheap it is worth trying out.
----------
Doug S.
Last Edited by dougharps on Mar 31, 2016 9:40 AM
|
Grey Owl
649 posts
Mar 31, 2016
10:24 AM
|
dougharps. I have just been trying out my various mics on my modelling amp (admittedly on one setting only) and the SM57 took the prize. I feel I could get more out of my Bullet and like the volume control but the truth is I don't know if I want to spend a lot of time/money on searching for a nice broken up sound as like you, I prefer to play most stuff clean.
If I use the cleaner amps settings with a bit of reverb I may also be able to sing through the SM57 +
Harp.
YouTube
|
Killa_Hertz
909 posts
Apr 01, 2016
6:06 AM
|
I like the 57 even for a dirty sound. If you cup that thing right it really responds well. It has much nicer highs than the DM13. So I imagine when playing out I would prefer the 57 for the Cut. But the point is Its a very versatile mic.
Im goin to try the inner tube mod. Take a piece of bicycle inner tube about 1-2" and put it over the outside of the grill of the 57. then it is essentially always cupped. the DM13 grill is designed with closed sides already so this may be part of the reason it is so much dirtier, idk. just a thought.
----------
Pay No Attention To The Man Behind The Curtain.
And Don't Pet The Monkey ... He Bites!
|
Grey Owl
652 posts
Apr 01, 2016
10:19 AM
|
I've been thinking of try that Inner tube thingy myself, I think I remember Hakan demonstrating it on one of his YT vids.
What's with the rotating grill on the SM57 BTW doesn't seem to serve any useful purpose and not so handling friendly for cupping? The inner tube would help with this if extended down to the shaft of the mic. Rubbers for safer cupping eh?
YouTube
|
Killa_Hertz
911 posts
Apr 01, 2016
10:49 AM
|
LMAO ... Ribbed?
Yea it seemed like a good idea. Im going to give it a try. I forget where I first saw it .. must have been from Hakan.
----------
Pay No Attention To The Man Behind The Curtain.
And Don't Pet The Monkey ... He Bites!
Last Edited by Killa_Hertz on Apr 01, 2016 10:50 AM
|
