Maybe someone here can guide me, as the internet is not really specific.
1. At first I though my chrom (Chromonica 270) was out of tune, I was practicing the major scale over the whole three octaves, slide out and in. And when I reach draw hole 12 slide in, it sounded weird. It thought it was out of tune, but now it looks based on some websites that that note is tuned D instead of C. Any reason for that?
2. I find it difficult to play the C note on hole 4 as it is next to another C note in unison and even though I play clear single notes, I don't know why I have an issue with that specific note as a little bit of the other C comes in most of the time and it sounds weird. Any tip on embouchure?
3. The top octave has been difficult to play the holes 11 and 12 as it requires lots of air and can't be played quietly as the rest, and I found that when I opened it once for cleaning that there is extra wood material there, making less air pass freely to the reeds (well at least thats how I feel it)
Soo any reason for that? I doubt I will be playing much time there but we should be able to be able to move freely on the whole instrument.
Anyway I seen some methods for chromatic harp online in which I'm interested on, but for the moment I only play it while practicing sight reading with the simple songs on the real book I got.
I'm interested in MAx Dealoe's book and some methods by Yvonnick Prene if any one know of those or any other please let me know
Thanks for any suggestion for the incredible and magic chrom!
Last Edited by DannyRanch on Jan 28, 2016 2:31 PM
Well, raising B a semitone would give you an alternate, Draw C, which can be very helpful in the lower octaves. But how often will you need that way up top? You already have a B, a C, and a C# in that hole, so why not extend the top end just *one* more semitone to D?
Do people actually use that high D? Stevie Wonder does; Toots Thielemans does; I do and I'm sure many more do as well.
2. If your single note embouchure is secure, you won't have that problem. In most other places, you can hear two different notes when you straddle two neighboring holes, and can easily tell whether you're isolating a single hole. But in Blow 4/5 and Blow 8/9, you get the same note (sometimes, though, the two Cs are not completely in tune with each other), so it's a bit harder to be sure.
Try these exercises:
2a) Alternate B-D-B-D-B on a single inhaled breath, starting and ending on the B. Now do the same thing on the blow, alternating the two Cs' starting with the one in Hole 4 (same hole as the draw B you just played). Try to sound each C by itself - you can hear when they're both sounding.
Try the same thing starting and ending on D, and then alternating the two Cs starting on Hole 5.
2b) Play B-C-B-C-B, alternating the daw and blow notes in Hole 4, staring and ending on B. Then move over to Hole 5 and play D-C-D-C-D-C, alternating blow and draw in Hole 5, beginning and ending on D.
Now do the same thing, this time starting on the blow C in each hole.
These exercises help you learn the location of these notes based on muscle memory and ear.
3. DO NOT change the structure of the comb The extra wood (aka ramps, which get progressively thicker as you go up in pitch, starting somewhere in the middle octave) serves two important purposes:
1) to reduce the air needed to fill the chamber, as the short reeds require less air (yes, you heard me right). 2) to raise the resonant frequency of the chamber so that it doesn't drag the pitch of the reed down.
The reeds in Holes 11 and 12 are not valved like most of the other holes, consequently they're more likely to leak air through the blow reed when you draw and through the draw reed when you blow. You can try valving them.
Being short and stubby and played less than the other reeds, I think manufacturers sometimes give up on the careful adjustment required to properly gap and profile these reeds to make them fully responsive.
HOWEVER, your embouchure and breathing technique may also play a part.
The middle octave of the harmonica is fairly forgiving. But go down to the bottom octave, and many players at first will get the dying cow sound on Draw 2 (Yes, this happens on chromatic as well as on diatonic). Go up to the top and you start hearing shrill squeaks and reluctant notes that - it seems - you have to force into action.
In both cases, these problems are caused by a pinched pipe somewhere in your body's air column. Tongue, throat, and lips must all allow free passage of air with no drag or obstruction. Try yawning. Try the warm hand exercise. Then apply these to the high notes and see how little air flow you can get away with to sound the notes. Then try the dastardly laugh exercise and the cough. This can help because even though a short reed requires less air to keep it in motion, its greater stiffness can require a little nudge to get it moving.
Standard tuning for hole 12 draw slide in is D. If it followed the pattern established on the rest of the harp, this note would be D sharp. What the D does, is give you one more note of the C scale.
Some might argue that this is evidence that the C chrom is essentially intended for playing in the key of C ....
Hole 12 Draw, slide in, if it followed the pattern of Holes 4 and 8 would not be D#, it would be C, same as it is in every other hole that has B as a draw note. =========== Winslow
Frank, you're introducing a topic that has nothing to do with DannyRanch's query.
But if we must continue this tiresome topic, you might be interested to know that he earliest patent for a chromatic harmonica with a C reedplate and a C# reedplate (Adolph Glass, 1882) states that it will be able to play "in several keys." See Pat Missin's list of early chromatic patents:
http://www.patmissin.com/patents/patents.html
But who cares what the original designer intended? What people actually do with the chromatic harmoncia is to play it in all 12 keys. Just like they play a C diatonic more in G than its intended key of C. =========== Winslow
Wow, incredible help Master Winslow (Can I call you that? lol)
I will try those exercises as soon as I get home, and well I'm glad the harp is not out of tune, and also its good to know about the wood racks.
Great I heard about the HiP magazine and was looking forward to get them soon, I will bookmark your articles, that is incredible helpful, will start reading them now.
I don't think the chrom was intended to play in C as some people have been saying on the forum, but yes it is a difficult instrument to play in the 12 keys.
Which gets me another doubt for horn players (anyone here?)
Is it that complicated to play fluently on the 12 keys on a trombone or trumpet for example compared with a harp?
Also remember the diatonic was supposed to be played on the major scale only, and several people can play 1th, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th and so on till 12th.
Difficult? hell yeah
Its funny since playing chromatically in a diatonic is really hard (having Eb as a tonic for example)
But the chrom has his crazy magic to make it difficult too haha.
Oh harmonica, sometimes I wish I have stayed playing bass and not complicating my life so much...
:)
Thanks for all the suggestions!
Last Edited by DannyRanch on Jan 28, 2016 3:29 PM
As an interesting aside, Bill Barrett tunes the top hole to | B c | C# d| as opposed to the tuning that has been discussed here, | C c# | B d | This is similar to the way I tune the top hole on an Orchestra tuned harp, | E f | F# g| in order to get the high G note. Not every harmonica manufacturer tunes the top notes the same, Hering doesn't add the high D to their chromatics.
Trombone reads in C say, a C on the page comes out as a concert C on the horn - that is to (unless you write in treble clef, in which case it reads in Bb - go figure; but I got that straight from a trombonist who was also a master arranger). Its slide gives 7 semitones of chromatic range and it pops up the harmonic (i.e., overtone) series, so there are plenty of overlaps. I'm not sure it has easy and difficult keys in terms of execution. (Un)familiarity with a particular key and reading may add mental difficulty, though. =========== Winslow
Saxophones are much easier to play in C. Actually, in C as written for the horn, which will be either Bb or Eb concert. As you add sharps or flats, there are extra key touches and different fingerings. The general plan is to practice everything in all keys and become equally fluent in all, but it is the truth that keys with more sharps and flats are more difficult to play, at least at first, just as on the chromatic harmonica. This applies to all woodwind instruments. Now, once you play 1000 tunes with guitarists who want to play everything in E, which is Gb on tenor or Db on bari, those keys become second nature. ---------- For every moment of triumph, every instance of beauty, many souls must be trampled. HST
Last Edited by Blowhead9 on Jan 28, 2016 10:20 PM
@frank and chromatic blues. Don't underestimate that High D. I've heard Toots use it as ending for a tune and I've used it myself for an ending note. ----------
Toots often uses the bend on Draw 11 very effectively. It's unvalved and a whole tone above the blow note, so it's really the only diatonic-like bend on the standard chromatic, like diatonic Draw 6 but an octave higher. =========== Winslow
Here's Stevie Wonder using the High D on the extended 12" dance mix of Chaka Khan's 1984 "I Feel for You." His solo starts at 3:45; the high D comes at 3:55. He also goes down to the low E on his 64 during the solo. (The standard single edits his solo down to just a couple of phrases)
By the way, his solo is pitch shifted. The track is in F# but they slowed it down to F to track his solo, then returned it to F#, so he's playing in F on a C chrom but it's coming out in F# (and no, he's not playing a C# chromatic).
Here's Toots using that High A (Draw 11) bend in a solo in E minor, backing singer Michael Franks in "How the Garden Grows. Tthe harmonica solo starts at 2:34; the bend happens at 3:04.
Here's Toots using that high D with Brasilian singer Elis Regina, dueting on the song "Wave" in about 1969. In the studio recording that Diggs mentions he only plays it once at the very end of the tune. In the live TV appearance, he plays it several times in a playful way.
Here's Toots playing the High D again. This time it's on a swinging 1955 session backed by pianist Ray Bryant on "Don't Be That Way." Toots hits the high D at 1:07 as part of a series of wide upward leaps during the bridge.
Winslow, wow thanks for those High D links! And Stevie links. Great material.
Regarding if saxophones sounds/feels better in some keys or not; I saw a Youtube clip (which I don´t find now.) of Michael Brecker (he has done a lot of practise and wood shedding...) where he said kind of humble that he don´t think the Tenor sax sound as "good" in A or B, as it does in Bb, because the instrument body itself resonates better in flat keys. But I think he referes more to resonance and sound, than a technique finger memory aspect.
So internal instrument resonance can have a factor, but I don´t know if it applies to chromatic harmonica. This is of course off-topic from Danny Ranch first question, but interesting in a way...
Wow, I have no business posting on the same forum with Filip Jers, Winslow, Adam Gussow, etc...Wow! So, I will anyway. Michael Brecker sounded pretty damned great in any key, I think. Keys do seem to have a tonal personality, although the body of a saxophone doesn't really resonate enough to contribute to the tone. It's all about the column of air inside the saxophone. Even the material the body is made of, ie brass, bronze, silver, even plastic, does not audibly affect tone. Some keys will seem to have more closed sounding pitches, others more open, unlike the harmonica. Sort of a parallel to cupped vs non-cupped on the harp.
---------- For every moment of triumph, every instance of beauty, many souls must be trampled. HST
Last Edited by Blowhead9 on Jan 30, 2016 2:29 PM
I've heard other saxophonists make similar comments about how the horn just sounds sort of dead in keys too far from the horn's home key.
However, considering that the full length of the tube actually vibrates two (or sometimes, in a baritone sax with a low A, three) semitones below the nominal key, and changes length with each pad lifted, I'm not sure how this can be explained. =========== Winslow
On sax just as any other instrument, all keys are played for the full range of the instrument. Certain notes do sound different though. For example, a C# in the middle octave is a very bright note, and the D it is adjacent to one of the darkest. Both of those can be played with alternate fingerings but usually aren't. So a key that contains C# might tend to have a slightly brighter character, especially a key where the C# is a 3rd or 5th chord tone in the tonic chord. That doesn't explain why Db is a pretty common key for horns though, does it? I play bari in a big band, and nearly all of the older charts are in flat keys, but many of the newer ones are in sharp keys. My theory, which I have little confidence in, is that the older charts were written in flat keys to take advantage of the bari's lowest pitch, the Bb. Since the mid-fifties, baritones with low A have become standard and charts are written to utilize that pitch. I don't think this theory will stand up to hard scrutiny. Hope this is not too much too off topic. ---------- For every moment of triumph, every instance of beauty, many souls must be trampled. HST
