I'm having an extremely hard time figuring what key harp to blow on songs played in a minor (ex Em). Been listening to Pat Ramsey's version of loan me a dime. Can someone please help me with what key he is playing and also somewhere to go to better understand playing harp in a minor song? Thanks in advance.
No harp in hand now, but it certainly sounds, as 1847 says, like 2 pos, D harp. Otherwise, for minor stuff -- think one whole step up from the harmonica key. That´s one of the usual ways to go about it. Thus, here a G harp could serve you. (Tons of info on this matter on a new thing that´s getting real big: "The Internet".)
This tune lays out perfectly in 5th position. F harp for Am. Would use C harp if it were Em. Play like u are in second position but use 2 blow for root. Don't bend anything except draw 3 and don't bend that more than a whole step. Try to avoid 5 draw and 9 draw except on the V chord. Try it--it's easy and you can play more phrases than what you can do using second position if u are so inclined.
@MajorDude: there are different kinds of minors. Most minor blues are NATURAL minor/ Aeolean mode. Natural minor scale has 3b 6b 7b. These notes MUST be played minor and at proper pitch, not slurred or "blued" (if u play major 3, 6 or 7 in a natural minor tune it will sound like shit or worse). 5th position gives u 3b, 6b & 7b WITHOUT HAVING TO BEND. So u can easily move thru all of the chords in the progression using 5th position. BUT you cannot bend randomly and in general you can't play chords. For the most part, the emotion in a minor blues comes from note movement anyway, not from bending, but u can bend 3draw rather freely, just don't take it down all the way to the step and a half bend. Blow 10 full step bend is also ok. The best bend for minor key blues is the b5 because it works well with the minor third and gives you a diminished sound. In fifth position the b5 is 3 draw bent a half step and 10 blow bent a whole step. Of course, all of this is just oversimplified guidance.
I do quite a bit of playing in different kinds of minor keys on standard Richter tuned harps, and I like to think I understand playing minors on a diatonic reasonably well. The conventional way to play minor is using third position, but IMHO third position is very limiting. Anyway, if you you have other questions about minor key playing, I'd be happy to try to answer them for you.
Last Edited by hvyj on Jan 28, 2016 11:46 AM
Wow...man you guys are way over my head....gonna take me awhile to wrap my head around this....THANK YOU hvyj for the information!
Last Edited by MajorDude on Jan 29, 2016 9:10 AM
The complications are endless, Major Dude, even if it might sound worse than it is. And since this tune also has an F chord, there´s a case to be made for 4th position as well -- A minor on a C harp. You might very well end up as Minor Dude.
I like this a lot. It's in A minor and as mentioned above the solo is played on a D harp in 2nd position. I had a couple of harps to hand and played along with the Sax sound intro, first with a D harp in 2nd and this is what I heard.
Intro on a D Harp -2**-2-2**+4-3*,-2**-2-2**+4-3*-3*, -2__-2*__-2**__+2, -2**-2-2**+4-3*, -2**-2-2**+4-3*-3*, -2__-2*__-2**__+2__, -2**-2-2**+4-3*, -2**-2-2**+4-3*-3*, -2-2-2**-1-2**-2. (quite a lot of low hole bends here)
But it worked out a bit easier with a G harp in 3rd
on G Harp +4-4+4+6-5,+4-4+4+6-5-5,-4__-4*__+4__-3__ +4-4+4+6-5, +4-4+4+6-5-5, -4__ -4*__+4__-3__, +4-4+4+6-5,+4-4+4+6-5-5, -4-4+4-3**+4-4
So you could use 2 harps if you like with a G for a nice deep tone for the intro and then copy Ramsey's phrasing on a D harp in 2nd for the solo. I've had a quick look at the start of this tasty solo which goes something like this.
-4*gliss-2 = a draw bend on 4 sliding down rapidly through -3 to -2
-4*/-4 = a draw bend on 4 smoothly and quickly released a normal draw 4
-2** = a double step draw bend on 2 -3* = a single step draw bend on 3 (+1Octave+4)I think he blows hole 4 then adds an octave split on hole 1 by tongue blocking holes 2 & 3 for that nice fat sound.
If I get a chance I'll take a look at hvyi's 5th position suggestion.
The theory stuff takes a while to get your head around, I'm still learning! I'm posting a new thread with some practical advice on playing the minor tune 'The thrill is gone'
Grey Owl and Hvyj..... thank you so much. I really appreciate this more than you know. I'm not musically inclined even though I've been "sort of" playing for 40 years. Thanks for not being a smart @$$ like some others.....You information has really given me something to study and try to apply. Thanks again fellows....
I had a hard time getting it as well---In the future, I will try to post this song using a 1]maj tuned harp in crossharp [D harp]---2] major tuned G harp in third pos----[Im mediocre at that---------3]A Dmin tuned Lee Oscar---a "nat minor harp--all the maj 3rds are flatted and the 6ths are flatted--It takes about a year for your ear to be able to adjust from a maj tuned to a min tuned and then back again etc. ---I feel its worth it-------This an example from 2 years ago--- Ive tightened the song up, quit a bit since then--- “I shot the sheriff” more folky than reggae strum sorry-works foe me---Song key G minor--- Gmin to C min with a Eb maj7 to Dmin turn---The I and IV chords are minor, that’s when a nat minor harp excels—yes again u can also play a F maj harp in third—but Im using a “ C nat minor tuned Lee Oscar ” in G minor---beginning of video is C nat minor harp at 3:25 or so I switch to C maj tuned to show the difference---Back in 2014 I couldn’t switch from maj tuned to minor tuned as well as I can now---my ears are use to it now---so its sounds bad on video--- but u can get a feel of the difference between a nat minor tuned vs reg tuned in a minor song hope this helps---
Pat Ramsay's Loan Me A Dime is an awesome song... horns, sax, and harp... wailing in the post-Katrina tristesse.
Last Edited by A440 on Jan 30, 2016 12:23 PM
