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Dirty-South Blues Harp forum: wail on! >
Open Jam Story
Open Jam Story
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HarpNinja
4187 posts
Jan 21, 2016
5:31 AM
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So I never go to jams. Like never. That being said, this past week, a guitarist buddy was doing a blues guitar crash course before a local jam.
I thought it might be fun to meet up for a drink to talk about our show this weekend, and he invited me to talk the last ten minutes of the class. He also wanted to jam on a few tunes.
Long story longer, it was your typical jam...great, pro musicians running a tight ship - underage jammers first, then individuals, then groups. Really great house band and jammers.
There were dancers..quite a few actually, and a lot of members of the local blues society hanging out to eat. It was better attended then most small bar blues events I've been to. I spent some time with Big Walter Smith's widow who was telling awesome stories about Albert Collins and Bo Diddley.
Drinks were fairly priced and everyone was in good spirits.
Then I was reminded why I hate these events. While there was a Bassman Ltd and Deluxe Reverb (with pedal boards) for the the guitar players, a full drum kit (and hand drums!) and stack for the rhythm section, my only option was a SM58 through the board. No biggie, that is my preferred rig anyways!
Well, that channel, specified for harp players, was not in the monitors and was totally buried front of house. It was about as big a harp player's nightmare as you'd expect to find.
I did a couple of songs, as I didn't want to be rude, but then I called it a night, although I had the opportunity to stay on stage the remainder of the set.
It was a good reminder why I don't go out on work nights, lol.
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Mike
My Website
My Harmonica Effects Blog
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HarpNinja
4188 posts
Jan 21, 2016
5:32 AM
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While the before playing part was great, what I saw from the jammers really bothered me on the way home. There were several GREAT guitar player/singers under 21 that jammed. They have been relegated to hitting jams with their parents during the week.
I was saddened by the fact that they were not gigging musicians. They can't find rhythm sections to gig with. It served as a reminder of our current music economy and pop culture.
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Mike
My Website
My Harmonica Effects Blog
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Barley Nectar
1073 posts
Jan 21, 2016
7:57 AM
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Hi Mike, Goose here. I go to jams fairly often. Get to sit in with a lot of bands. I'm pretty lucky to be doin this at 60!
Lets face it, it is a guitar world. The sound guy plays guitar and has no clue about harp tone. I went to a harmonica festival a couple of years back. The promoter and land owner is a friend of mine. I know the sound crew and their ladies. Anyhoo, there were some really good harp players but same as you, they could barely be heard in the mix. I got a case of the red ass and went up on the sound stage and told the guys on the board,"Look, you see all these people, they came here to hear HARMONICA, now turn the MFer up"!! I got a couple of rotten looks, and they turned the harp up! No trouble after that. The guys on the board are guitar players, and we are still friends. We laugh about it now.
I ALWAYS take my own amp to a jam. This way, I am in control. There have been a couple of occasions when a jam leader (stranger) will baulk because he can't control my sound. I tell them, look, I'll do one song, if you don't like it, I'll shut it off and take it down. Never happened.
Around here the four piece rock band is dieing. The young people are all playing flattops and hand drums, maybe throw in some keys. That is why you can't sell a Fender Twin. I like the alternative music, my little whistles don't get lost in the mix. There are a lot of good younger players around here but there is no money or places to play. Sad. Oh well, I've rambled on enough...G
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1847
3133 posts
Jan 21, 2016
10:34 AM
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i remember a sign i saw once it said...... what do you get when you don't get what you want?
experience..........
we have jams here where the back line is set. but it is not written in stone. the trick is to be able to quickly set up.
i have a tripp lite power strip with 8 outlets it has a 25 foot cord. i consider that a main component of my rig.
whenever possible i am the first person to arrive. i can roll my amp in and be set up if need be in one minute.
i also have a battery powered amp that kicks ass. even less time to set up with that.
we are lucky we have 4 or 5 jams locally a week out here. everyone knows everybody, usually it is fairly harp friendly.
there is a music convention in town this week, players from all over the world have been turning up at the jams the last few days,
last nite's jam was of the hook. the best part was i saw a friend i haven't seen in years.
tripp lite
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if you appreciate what you have...
it becomes more.
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barbequebob
3119 posts
Jan 21, 2016
12:36 PM
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@Harp Ninja --- I partially understand the reasoning for not having the harp channel in the monitors because often times by the way many players tend to player, the harp player is the first guy to feed back, especially if the sound guy has a tendency to set monitor volume way too high to begin with, plus on top of that, because of the way far too many harp players tend to be, they're often gonna be thought of, like it or not, as really crappy musicians that nobody really wants to hear.
You didn't mention if you stepped off the bandstand an could actually hear what you were doing and if you carried over the band. Many times, I tell sound guys when they're miking my amp to keep the harp amp off the monitors so I can avoid feedback (unless I lucked out and had a sound guy who had his s**t together, which too often isn't the case).
I've seen what you mentioned happen with other young musicians as well, but at that age, they haven't learned to do the non online version of what Linked In does just yet, which at some point, they'll eventually learn to do.
@Barley Nectar --- Doing stuff where no amplification is needed at all is gold to me because my back and ears won't ache, plus there are no crutches like gear for you and it's just taste and real playing skill needed. Any chance I can do a gig where acoustic harp is required, I always take those.
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Sincerely,
Barbeque Bob Maglinte
Boston, MA
http://www.barbequebob.com
CD available at http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/bbmaglinte
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Barley Nectar
1075 posts
Jan 22, 2016
10:04 AM
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Bob, I'd like to buy you for what you are worth and then sell you for what you think you are worth!..BN
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bonedog569
972 posts
Jan 22, 2016
10:32 AM
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if the stage isn't set up for harp players- I try to have a friendly chat with the sound man before getting on stage. Roll off highs, a little wet, not too hot. Hopefully I can get his attention if I point to the floor monitor then stick my thumb up if I can't hear myself.
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Rgsccr
389 posts
Jan 22, 2016
11:03 AM
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I agree with Barley Nectar's solution, and always take my amp to a jam. In five or so years of doing this I have never had anyone complain. My main amp, a Bassman, is loud enough for pretty much anything, and my other main amp (a 12 watt Decca) is also very loud and usually sufficient. I should add that the jams here in Seattle, at least the ones I go to, are very harp friendly which certainly helps.
Last Edited by Rgsccr on Jan 22, 2016 11:03 AM
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HarpNinja
4189 posts
Jan 22, 2016
11:15 AM
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The harp was in the FOH mix, but totally buried. I stood as close to the mains as I could to hear it.
The band was running the sounds, and they weren't going to mess with any dials. I get it. It isn't so much sour grapes as it was just as stereotypical as it could get.
Even now, though, I keep thinking of two of the younger jammers. One was just back from going to school in Chicago - not sure he was quite 21. He played a hollow body and had a good voice too. He could have easily been the front man of the house band.
Instead, he just hits up jams because he can't find a gig.
I felt even worse for the other guy. He was 18, just finished HS, was not going to go to college and when I asked him what he does he said, "Play guitar". He isn't gigging or teaching, though, so while he was a great blues and blues-rock player, he isn't getting any experience other than a song or two at a jam (assuming they allow minors).
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Mike
My Website
My Harmonica Effects Blog
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jbone
2135 posts
Jan 22, 2016
8:30 PM
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When I had a Bassman I was once forbidden to put it on a jam stage. Instead they stuck my mic in a Peavey something or other and turned it way up, and when it squealed looked at me like it was my fault. I had explained to the guy running the jam and the guy who objected to the Bassman that it was modded for harp, would not feed back, and that the volume knob went both up AND down. No dice. I never went back to that jam again.
It's this kind of crap that has burned me out on jams around here. Possibly when we hit the road full time next year this will change for the better. I think mostly we'll be more focused on gigs and busking than hanging out hoping for a quick spot at a jam though.
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Joe_L
2655 posts
Jan 22, 2016
8:43 PM
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I agree with Bob. I'm completely content playing harp through a vocal mic eq'ed for vocals. If you've got tone, it's no big deal. The old guys did it.
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jbone
2136 posts
Jan 23, 2016
4:57 AM
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True Joe, the old guys did it. With tube powered p.a.'s and high z mics of all sorts. It's not impossible these days if you have the chops, in fact we just got a new p.a. that harp sounds very good through.
Many times I've played through the p.a. at a jam and even some gigs. It is nice however, to bring your rig and know what your sound will be- warm, round, and pleasing with no uncertainty.
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garry
620 posts
Jan 24, 2016
6:46 PM
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And to know it will be heard, which is rarely the case through the PA. Everyone thinks the harp is too loud until everybody else starts playing, then it gets buried.
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barbequebob
3123 posts
Jan 25, 2016
12:08 PM
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Back in those old days, a guitar amp WAS the PA, and when I started in the 70's, it wasn't uncommon for a band to use a Fender Showman/Dual Showman or Twin Reverb amp with an extension cabinet as a PA. Truthfully, in the 50's many guitar amps were more powerful than the revered tube PA's ever were, and so many guitar players AND harp players sang thru their amps.
@Harp Ninja -- the club scene sucks everywhere, so there are far fewer places with live music than when I started, and that cuts across all music genres. Jams may be fine for getting your feet wet, but for expanding musical horizons and improving, unfortunately, they can be FAR from ideal and it can be a place where you can wind up regressing, based on the jam, the host band as well as the quality of the jammers. The only really good ones are the so called special invite/snob jams, which tend to have both a much better house band overall plus the jammers tend to be far more musically together than the vast majority of open jams around the world.
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Sincerely,
Barbeque Bob Maglinte
Boston, MA
http://www.barbequebob.com
CD available at http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/bbmaglinte
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