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Joyo American Sound?
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Martin
950 posts
Jan 12, 2016
10:01 AM
Sort of hijacking my own earlier thread here, but I hope that´s all right.

I wonder, those of you that use the Harley-Benton/Joyo American Sound pedal, do you go directly to the PA, or via amplifier?
It´s an interesting little thing (not only because of its price) and I´m, per my own thread, pondering its use for small scale gigs w/o PA and then going through my 10W amp.
I don´t own a feedback eliminator of any sort, and of course anything with the capacity to create some sort of distortion always appears likely to give feedback.

There are no sound samples on YT, as far as I can se -- but sometimes they are hidden elsewhere?

Last Edited by Martin on Jan 12, 2016 10:03 AM
MindTheGap
973 posts
Jan 12, 2016
10:29 AM
I've been using one for a while. I can use it in front of an amp but it really comes into its own straight to a PA.

It's a real swiss-army knife: the key features for me are the wide range of EQ available and the surprisingly wide range of output signal. Which means it will match to the input of an amp, the instrument-level inputs of a PA or even the line-level inputs of a PA.

The range of distortion is wide too, so you can run it quite clean to quite distorted. Of course with too much gain you have to watch for feedback.

BTW it's also useful for guitar (for which it was designed) and bass for the same reasons. I encouraged my bass player to use one, and it solves problems to do with difficult room acoustics and can add a little grit.

Last Edited by MindTheGap on Jan 12, 2016 10:32 AM
HarpNinja
4177 posts
Jan 12, 2016
10:44 AM
I've used the Joyo or Tech 21 Blonde for years now. I always go straight to PA. I do not use it into an amp. I use it in place of an amp.

The Joyo is next to last on my board. Behind it is a delay pedal. I take a line out from the delay right into the 1/4" of my powered monitor. If I am using the house PA, I plug into a DI and let them take the XLR out from that.

The Joyo has a speaker sim that is always on. That being said, I did try it with an ASR-3 Shaper. This digital pedal is a cab sim. It would work better, probably with the Tech 21 Blonde which lets you take the speaker sim off.

However, the Joyo with the 4x10 mode of the Shaper is a killer sound. I have not tried it live, though. I do use the Joyo live all the time.

The American Sound works great with harmonica because of the speaker sim, low gain, and generally dark tone of the pedal. You don't have to cut highs...it is almost like it is eq'ed for harp from the factory.

I have tried the Joyo Clean Glass. This pedal is digital and doesn't work as well with harmonica. The AS is analog. There are differences in tone like limited EQ and higher gain that make the CG not as awesome.

The AS is equally awesome at Blackface and Tweed sounds. I have a/b'ed it at home with things like a Victoria Champ and Princeton Reverb Reissue. I don't own either amp now, as the Joyo works better for me.
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Mike
My Website
My Harmonica Effects Blog
HarpNinja
4178 posts
Jan 12, 2016
10:45 AM
I've posted some demos of the Tech 21 Blonde with harmonica. I apologize for the lack of Joyo clips, it has to do with logistics of my household. I will be recording a duo show where I will use it this month.

I know there are live clips on my YT page with it, but recorded with an iPad at low audio fidelity.
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Mike
My Website
My Harmonica Effects Blog
MindTheGap
975 posts
Jan 12, 2016
10:48 AM
...btw there are some demos of the Joyo with guitar. Takes them with whatever pinches of salt you like, but there is one out there of a comparision between a real mic'd cabinet and a direct-input recording of the Joyo and the conclusion is that it's hard to tell the difference.
HarpNinja
4179 posts
Jan 12, 2016
11:00 AM
IME, it is hard to tell the difference. I can make it sound like a Champ, but way fuller and louder if I want!

They are dirt cheap and well worth the price. I've done a lot of homework on Joyo, and their other clone pedals work well too.
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Mike
My Website
My Harmonica Effects Blog
rogonzab
868 posts
Jan 12, 2016
1:48 PM
Tech 21 Blonde in action



If the joyo sounds like this, I am sold!
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Sorry for any misspell, english is not my first language.
Killa_Hertz
204 posts
Jan 12, 2016
4:41 PM
I didnt think that sounded good. Gave me that nails on a chalkboard feeling. I'm really not trying to talk smack I'm being serious. Something off about it. Too high and hollow sounding.

Do yall think that sounded good?

Edit: it has good qualities for sure, but needs to be tweaked. My opinion. Could be wrong.

Could be the recording or the room.
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"Trust Those Who Seek The Truth...
Doubt Those Who Say They Have Found It."

Last Edited by Killa_Hertz on Jan 12, 2016 5:07 PM
indigo
206 posts
Jan 12, 2016
5:07 PM
@Killa I get where you are coming from but i didn't think was too bad in that to me it is still a 'legit' sound for amped blues Harp.
I play everything from Tube through my home stereo set up not the computer speakers might of made a bit of difference.?
Killa_Hertz
205 posts
Jan 12, 2016
5:11 PM
Well i listened to it on my galaxy lol. So im sure it did. I didn't think it was horrible. Just shrill. Sure its Got a legit sound. Definatly could work with it. Could be a number of things causing it i suppose.
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"Trust Those Who Seek The Truth...
Doubt Those Who Say They Have Found It."

Last Edited by Killa_Hertz on Jan 12, 2016 5:12 PM
Barley Nectar
1043 posts
Jan 12, 2016
5:26 PM
Pretty hard to dam near impossible to get a true representation of live sound over the web. Nice playin there Zab. Keep at it...BN
Killa_Hertz
206 posts
Jan 12, 2016
5:38 PM
That wasn't zab. Just a random youtube vid. I think. I hope cus I wouldn't have been that critical.

And i thought we were just taking about the joyo. Not the playing.

Edit : I know you can't get a good feel for live sound on a you tube vid. Just the way he said "Im Sold" like that sound was the Straight Truth. I just wanted to know if i was crazy.
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"Trust Those Who Seek The Truth...
Doubt Those Who Say They Have Found It."

Last Edited by Killa_Hertz on Jan 12, 2016 5:47 PM
rogonzab
871 posts
Jan 12, 2016
6:37 PM
No, is not me.

I think that sounds good, I dont go for te "bass on 10, treble and mids at 0" sound, that sound is just muddy, I like the mids!

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Sorry for any misspell, english is not my first language.
rogonzab
872 posts
Jan 12, 2016
6:37 PM
No, is not me.

I think that sounds good, I dont go for te "bass on 10, treble and mids at 0" sound, that sound is just muddy, I like the mids!

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Sorry for any misspell, english is not my first language.
Barley Nectar
1047 posts
Jan 12, 2016
6:56 PM
Very good Zab. You have it figured out!...BN
indigo
207 posts
Jan 12, 2016
7:10 PM
Thing too is that this kind of pedal can have a lot of different settings.I have a Digitech RP200 that has literally hundreds of possible sound combinations.
One guy could use a completely different setting (or mike)on the Blonde 21 and sound, for example, too bassy or too clean.
Killa_Hertz
212 posts
Jan 12, 2016
8:15 PM
Zab .... Thank God ... BN .... made me feel like a real dick.

That's cool man who's to say what sounds good. I don't like all bass either. I just think the highs are cuttin too much. And it Doesnt blend with the band.

It's not off by much but enough to bother me. Idk. Maybe im just wierd.


Indigo. I kno it can be adjusted. Infact that's exactly what i suggested. I would like to try the digitech with the patch DL. I use the zoom multistomp right now. It works pretty well. I like it because you can adjust what order your effects are in. And you can even put effects before or after the amp if you use a model. And turn on or off effects in a chain with a click. Without having to make an identical program minus i effect and A/B it.

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"Trust Those Who Seek The Truth...
Doubt Those Who Say They Have Found It."

Just a lil' HaHa HooHoo on the 3/4 - 4/5!
@MTGap

Last Edited by Killa_Hertz on Jan 12, 2016 8:18 PM
MindTheGap
979 posts
Jan 12, 2016
11:41 PM
I do like that brittle sound myself, but I don't recognise it as typical of the Joyo, which I find to be darker. I wonder if the choice of mic is more responsible. There's a point around 5m50s where the guitarist sings into the mic and it sounds very bright.

But how much can you tell from a YT soundtrack? What if we were choosing a bass and bass amp, or a snare drum, what would I glean from this??

Last Edited by MindTheGap on Jan 12, 2016 11:49 PM
mastercaster
195 posts
Jan 13, 2016
3:03 AM
In Singapore .. very cool ! : )
Killa_Hertz
219 posts
Jan 13, 2016
4:47 AM
Point taken. Your right could be any number of things. It does have a nice break up sound.
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"Trust Those Who Seek The Truth...
Doubt Those Who Say They Have Found It."

Just a lil' HaHa HooHoo on the 3/4 - 4/5!
Dragonbreath
79 posts
Jan 13, 2016
7:26 AM
It should be noted that the guy in the video is also using a Kinder Anti feedback pedal and there are parts of the sound which to me seem to be common when that pedal is involved so I'm not sure how well the vid represents the Joyo regardless of audio quality of recording.

I can add that I also have the Joyo A.S. myself. I haven't used it with PA yet, which was the main reason I got it. And it was cheap. But I does give you a dirtier sound at lower volume through tube amp. And the sound is nice as well. But when I go back and forth between pedal and no pedal, a little something tube warmth or something goes missing with the pedal and with a little work I can get pretty much the same sound without the pedal anyway.
Martin
951 posts
Jan 13, 2016
7:39 AM
Many thanks for the input here. I believe I´m going to give the Joyo a try. Even for a poor bastard like me the price is managable.
Just one last question: does it hold up well in the battery department?
(I prefer batteries for small gigs, but my recently purchased TCE pedal was simply ridiculous: even just passing it by with a battery killed it immediately.)
HarpNinja
4180 posts
Jan 13, 2016
7:45 AM
The Joyo sounds better than any of the modelers I've tried, even those I purchased patches for. It sounds better for my playing than the HarpAttack and HarpBreak, although I use the HB like a guitar player uses a Tube Screamer.

I moved and lost my workshop/recording space at home. I have young kids, so doing demos is tough at the moment.

I stand by my recommendation of the Joyo being a GREAT pedal for direct playing with most harp friendly mics. I have used it with a bullet, but as mentioned in other posts, use a modified SM58.

I wish I had clips as it really is an amazing tool..this is the best I got (and it is the Tech 21 Blonde):







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Mike
My Website
My Harmonica Effects Blog

Last Edited by HarpNinja on Jan 13, 2016 7:46 AM
MindTheGap
985 posts
Jan 13, 2016
8:12 AM
Ah, I was going to ask about the effect of the Kinder AFB pedal. I don't find the Joyo gives that crackly, brittle kind of breakup in the video, so my results don't tally with that clip. I recognise the sounds in Mike's clip.

The battery life is very good - hours and hours.

I'm glad to hear other people praising this pedal, it is very useful and quite a find. I originally came across it when helping one of my sons with his guitar sound. For that purpose it gives a wide variety of possibilities and is easy to adjust on stage.

Last Edited by MindTheGap on Jan 13, 2016 8:18 AM
HarpNinja
4181 posts
Jan 13, 2016
8:55 AM
The AFB can definitely impact one...



The Joyo is not harsh sounding unless you crank the mids and highs. At that point, though, you will have hit the feedback threshold.

The only "con" of the Joyo break up is if you are looking for that really crunch sound that sounds hollow. I can't think of a way to describe it other than it isn't compressed or warm - just scratchy.

I like that break up at times, but the Joyo doesn't give me that.

The Joyo/Blonde really nails the Fender tones, though. You can get really close to the upper mid honk of a tweed Champ with the mids and highs cranked higher than the bass. The Victoria 5112 sitting at my house (I don't own it) has a little more of that cutting tone.

That being said, the Joy gets so much louder and fuller, it easily drowns out the Champ.

I used the Tech 21, fairly clean, with a Green Bullet on an outdoor stage in a 10 piece country-rock band. It ran right to my QSC K10 and the sound guy took the signal from that.

I was asked by the guitar player playing with a stack to turn down. It was super loud with no feedback or feedback pedal.

Because I can, I do have a noise gate on ahead of it....just to play safe. The first pedal in my chain is a Zoom BT100. I have the noise gate on and use the footswitch to turn on/off an octave and wah effect. If I didn't have the pedal or room, I could skip it.
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Mike
My Website
My Harmonica Effects Blog
MindTheGap
986 posts
Jan 13, 2016
9:08 AM
I agree with your 'scratchy breakup' comment. That's it exactly. For a while I thought that was the target sound.

Last Edited by MindTheGap on Jan 13, 2016 9:08 AM
HarpNinja
4182 posts
Jan 13, 2016
9:59 AM
I know little about the Shaker mic, but that paired with the AFB could add a lot of that scratchy sound. Scratch isn't bad, necessarily.
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Mike
My Website
My Harmonica Effects Blog
HarpNinja
4183 posts
Jan 13, 2016
10:08 AM
What I would LOVE to do is work with someone like Lone Wolf (or maybe Joyo or China?) to come up with a harp-specific analog pedal like this.

I would use the Fender aspect to work from, but the pedal would have the following differences:

Additional XLR with Ground Switch for DI

Speaker sim bypass and/or sweepable speaker EQ

I know for sure that can be done with a pedal like this. I have other mods that I would want personally, but maybe aren't practical. I would love an effects loop and blend knob.

Besides obviously making the input work with bullet mics, I would change of some of the filtering and EQ to drop the overall gain of the drive knob and make the bass control more harp friendly tones. You might be able to even have a low/mid added.

I am sure a Blonde or American Sound can be modded VERY close to this - I know Putnam does this. Someone will steal my idea for sure, so hopefully they give me a free one.

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Mike
My Website
My Harmonica Effects Blog
Bugsy
63 posts
Jan 13, 2016
9:18 PM
So I just happened by here, and I am really turned on to this pedal at the moment.

Joyo also has a British Sound, and even an AC Tone (for a Vox amp sound)... has anyone tried either of those pedals? Any comparison?

Last Edited by Bugsy on Jan 13, 2016 9:23 PM
HarpNinja
4190 posts
Jan 26, 2016
5:45 AM
First vid is the American Sound with delay set to a Blackface sound. The second clip has a phaser and then the HarpBreak used infront of the AS. I will try to post more, but it is cellphone mic quality, and I was super sick/hoarse trying to sing.




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Mike
My Website
My Harmonica Effects Blog
Martin
956 posts
Jan 26, 2016
4:19 PM
Thanks a lot for all your input here, Mike.

I ordered one, arrived today and I will spend some of the weekend trying to find a setting with my amp, or a PA. (Just slightly worried that I now will have to get a phaser as well ...)

Will try it on an upcoming duo gig, and if it sounds reasonably interesting I hope there´ll be some sound samples.
Gus
36 posts
May 10, 2016
9:24 PM
So If you had to choose and money is not an issue: Joyo or Tech 21 Blonde? Is the Tech 21 Blonde worth the extra money?
Poe
6 posts
Nov 14, 2019
4:02 PM
Got one delivered yesterday. Set it up on my board before the Harp Attack with a Harp Octave, Harp Break, a Donner Mini Overdrive, a mini compressor and an ART Tube MP Preamp first in the chain, all in front of the AS. Playing through a Bulletini. Split the signal to both my PA and my '68 Champ with a Weber Sig 8.

I wanted to A/B the AS against the HA as they are both marketed as direct to the PA alternatives. The verdict? The AS is a versatile, good sounding, fully adjustable, completely usable device capable of dialing in just about any harp tone you can create through your own playing. It can be as clean or as dirty as you want it to be with the clean really sounding nice. Getting into extreme dirt left me feeling a little "hollow"...until I clicked on any other dirt pedal stacked in front of it. Each, including the Donner Mini Overdrive really punched in it's own character to the tone without mushing things up. Granted you have to use the drives sparingly as mush/feedback will appear very quickly but that is part of the beauty of stacking pedals: a little truly goes a long way.

Now I will gladly admit, the HA has been the basis of my amplified tone for the last decade. It makes any PA sound like you are playing through an amp and it makes any amp sound better than it did without it. I will never be without it and will always recommend it to anyone for either application.

The HA incorporates a sub-miniature beam power tube which to my ears, is completely audible. It just sounds great up to about 2:00 on the drive dial (depending on overall volume, room, band etc..). The AS uses a diode for its dirt like the HB and yes, I can hear the difference with the AS being a bit less "present" in the mix and a bit mushier for lack of a better term. It is an emulator and I have used many, so I know that "hollow" sound too well. It isn't bad and most non harp playing-gear heads would never know the difference but I can hear it. I would surmise most of the readers here would as well.

Where the AS does shine is the Voice and Mid controls which makes it more adjustable than the HA. The single tone control on the HA is very usable however it can't bump the mid frequencies like the AS does which provides that "bark" we all cherish when seeking the Chicago tone... on command.

The HA is warmer with it's tube. Also more organic sounding for the same reasons. Got a bit more bite to my ears as well.

The AS is more adjustable with 3 separate eq controls a level (volume) voice and drive controls. I found the bass control to be a little weak, (Especially against the HB) the highs were good and even bump-able as the pedal is very dark sounding. Again, using a Bulletini so bass is not an issue. Experimenting with the Voice and Drive controls on the AS is loads of fun with both PA and tube amps and the range of achievable tones is fairly amazing.

It's also a fifth of the price of the HA.

So here's the kicker - I set up the AS to a nice, hairy tone and use the HA as the last device the PA or amp recieves in the signal (with exception of the DM-2). Since the HA is the last sound-shaping device in the chain, the signal benefits from all the love the HA provides while the AS is feeding the mid-range grind I have been missing. Keeping the volume controls set on the low side seems to keep the feedback threshold under control while the rig sounds like a fire-breathing '57 Deluxe ready to explode.

In summation, I like the AS! Will it replace my HA? NEVER! However, it's a great tool which I wouldn't hesitate to gig with, even if it's all I had with me. Since it's on my board now, it going to stay a while. Sadly, to make room for it, I had choose between shelving either the HB or the HO. Since the drive/voice on the AS is also generated by a diode and bass (or lack therof) is not an issue using the Bulletini, The HB lost for now..but I have a feeling she'll be back...or a bigger board is in my future!

Last Edited by Poe on Nov 15, 2019 9:32 AM
Littoral
1708 posts
Nov 15, 2019
12:44 PM
Poe, I appreciate the input. I'm set up very similar and my problem is the JA is a giant volume drop.
Specifically:
XoticEP>LW Octave>JA>LW Delay>Carbon Copy Delay. Bulletini and a DI.
I've pulled the whole thing apart and tried every combination I can think of. One thing I haven't looked at is voltage but I was using batteries when I did all the comparisons. I was having trouble with my HB and figured the JA was a good solution.
Any suggestions?
Poe
7 posts
Nov 15, 2019
3:20 PM
Littoral - I didn't experience any volume drop but my usage has been very limited at this point since I just got the AS. Going to spend some more time with it this weekend.

I don't use batteries and have everything but the ART and the HA running off a One-Spot 9v. The ART and the HA require 18v so they get their own wall wart.

Batteries do create less signal noise but I just don't trust them anymore and don't want to spend the time/cash to replace them all before a gig. Even then, batteries are known to be DOA right out of the package. I'd rather just plug in the power the strip and go.

I'll put the rig through some trials with focus on the volume and report back.
Littoral
1709 posts
Nov 16, 2019
6:13 AM
POE, thanks. I use a power supply too. I just mentioned batteries because I did it to eliminate voltage in the trouble shoot. I'd like to use it somehow but the drop in volume is about 50% and not really manageable.
gmacleod15
322 posts
Nov 17, 2019
4:49 AM
Littoral. There should not be any drop in output. In fact you should be able to add a lot of extra gain.
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MBH member since 2009-03-24
sonvolt13
188 posts
Nov 17, 2019
6:46 AM
I’ve used the blonde straight into the PA with good results (speaker sim always on). If the Joyo is as good as the sansamp it is a huge bargain.
Kingley
4148 posts
Nov 17, 2019
7:12 AM
Have to say that the Lone Wolf Harp Attack is one of the best bits of harp kit I've ever bought, if not the best. Really great product.


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