I'm interested in advice on playing horn lines on soul songs, particularly using the chromatic. It's for the practical reason that my band want some familiar, danceable numbers for paying events.
I'm comfortable with the amped chromatic supplying something like breathy saxophone sounds, long-tailed notes with vibrato. But not sure about punchy, brassy hits.
Ideally looking for practical advice here rather than general opinions or pithy one-liners i.e. you've tried it and found what works, or tried it and found it doesn't work. Or you've heard someone do it successfully.
Last Edited by MindTheGap on Dec 06, 2015 3:01 AM
- Magic Dick's (diatonic) playing on early J Geils Band albums - check out "Wait" "Raise Your Hand" etc Lots on punchy hits on the 2 draw / Roll offs 2d - 2d" - 1d / adding a 3d' for tension
- David Barrett's Accompaniment Playing book has a section on horn lines - again diatonic
Work on a punchy attack an a good sense of timing. Often these lines and accents sound better behind the beat
Last Edited by GamblersHand on Dec 07, 2015 4:22 AM
That was quick! Thanks. I just listened to Wait and that was a bit more 'blues-harp lines' that I'm after. But 'Raise Your Hand' is much more like it. I'm looking to use chromatic to play it more straight, and because some songs will have more chords than I-IV-V.
In this vid, at around 1m30s there is a grainy shot of Magic Dick and it looks like he's playing something bigger than a standard diatonic. If this is indeed a chromatic then this is song is the just the kind of template I'm looking for. If someone who knows can comment that'd be great.
I do have David Barrett's book, and I've also heard his great example where three harps play as a proper horn section. Again, that's a softer sound.
This question is less about the note choices - because I'm looking to play the well-known lines verbatim. More about playing those lines convincingly (technique, sound).
>>This question is less about the note choices - because I'm looking to play the well-known lines verbatim. More about playing those lines convincingly (technique, sound).
Don't know if these help?
"I have studied theory, jazz, classical, etc., but when it gets to blues/swing etc., a lot of that stuff just goes out the window. It's more about sitting with a piece you like and studying the crap out of it...copying the guys' licks, subtleties in tone like growls, breath, etc. ~ Johnny Ferreira "
Often if I am the only horn I will substitute more simple versions of the horn lines, especially if using diatonic and not chromatic. I admire your dedication in trying to replicate them verbatim on chromatic.
I find that playing octaves when rendering brief phrases on either diatonic or chromatic helps the harmonica get the horn feel for those brief horn fills. ----------
The J Geils video interests me. From the look of it, it dates from the 70´or 80´s. MD´s harp does indeed look bigger than a standard diatonic -- but his playing, as far as I can tell right now, fits on a standard Bb diatonic. Could it be that he´s using an Echo Harp? Or a chorus pedal? The power of the opening riff appears to some extent to come from simultaneous playing with the Hammond.
I'm with Martin in regards to the 'raise your hand' video, it sounds like a Bb diatonic. The vid is too poor and grainy to see what it actually looks like.
Having tried it now, I agree it fits with a Bb diatonic. That said, it's the style of playing that of interest here.
OK 'verbatim' is proabably an unachievable ideal - but the aim is to play recognisable phrases from familiar songs, rather than something new. In practice, yes, it will probably mean simplifying. Many of these songs have specific horn parts that are a characteristic part of the song e.g. In the midnight hour - intro and instrumental break.
The articles in Komuso's links give plenty of food for thought and plenty to go and research. What I'm really after is examples where the trail has already been blazed. E.g. Someone playing knock on wood with recognisable horn lines on a harp or chromatic. Maybe it doesn't work very well, who knows.
Last Edited by MindTheGap on Dec 07, 2015 3:32 AM
...below is an example of kind of thing I don't want to do. And no disrespect or criticism in any way to the artists here, whether it's your cup of tea or not. This example is about inserting the exciting-harp-thing into a song and rocking it up.
What I'd be looking to do is more play hits on the intro changes, like the original record. As a intro to the vocals, rather than an intro to a harp-cadenza.
Knock on Wood - D harp the horn line in the turnaround is E - G - A - B - D - B - A - G 4d 5d 6b 6d 6b 7b 6d 6b 5d
Bridge is across F# G# A chords I think something like 3d - 4d' -4d - 4d' - 3d 4d' - 4d - 5b - 4d - 4d' 4d - 5b - 5d - 5b - 4d Then the punches on C and B 5d - 4d 4d' - 3d"
This is from muscle memory and I don't have harps nearby, so go by ear rather than exactly what's written
Last Edited by GamblersHand on Dec 07, 2015 4:11 AM
Thanks for these. Yes it's things like the Gb that lead me towards chromatic for this. No mess no fuss. Likewise for the bridge in knock on wood, although that's tricky at tempo. If you have a recording or playing it with a band I'd be delighted to hear it.
Well, I just sat through a number of YT vids of bands playing Midnight Hour with harmonicas shoe-horned in doing generic blues-harp things, and it made me despair of this instrument. I had to stop and go to listen to some of the Ludella album as an antidote.
I'm now going to run through all the Andy J. Forest tracks I have. He seems to make a wide range of creative sounds. I bet he's got something.
Last Edited by MindTheGap on Dec 07, 2015 9:37 AM
"I had to stop and go to listen to some of the Ludella album as an antidote." Love this. Adam's horn lines on Superstition is (I think) the way to go. I can't imagine you're going to get the big harmonies from a horn section but solid octves help a lot -especilly if you do them staccato. Another way I've learned some is studying T-Bone Walker guitar lines because he copied a lot of horn lines in his phrasing.
Last Edited by Littoral on Dec 08, 2015 3:54 AM
Dr Hoy. Because I want it to sound convincing musically, not just someone wheezing away playing the correct notes on a harmonica. So tone, attack, articulation, timbre, amplification style. I want to hear examples. So far I've found one or two. If you've got any examples of your playing in this style that you like, I'd be pleased to hear them.
Last Edited by MindTheGap on Dec 16, 2015 3:21 AM
Littoral - now you mention it, Adam's style on Superstition and other non-blues-harp songs is a quite a good template. I'd not thought of that. There's some blues-harp schtick in the mix but a lot of it is sharp single notes and identifiable hooks and melodies. I guess it hadn't rung a bell because he's playing solo and filling all the space, rather than playing sparse horn lines on the kind of songs I'm thinking of. But yes, it's a good thought. Ta.
As for call me the breeze, my band plays that but more in the JJ Cale style, and I worked out a more county style thing for that.
Very specifically I want to play existing, memorable horn parts (as far as it is possible) rather than make up new parts. It doesn't have to have that sound of a harmonica masquerading as another instrument - you know, ooh that's good because it sounds like a trumpet/trombone/sax, I can't be doing with that. That's party trick stuff in my book. Just has to sound good - whatever that means.
Last Edited by MindTheGap on Dec 16, 2015 5:57 AM
This bucked my memory a bit, but it was so long ago I seen this vid it never came to mind straight away. This is a good example of listening to horn players and copping their licks.
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"Those British boys want to play the blues real bad, and they do"
Whenever you learn the horn licks, you can't just learn the notes. You also have to learn the actual dynamics of the horn lines and there are gonna be times you also have to get the rhythm and attack of the line absolutely dead on right, meaning that your intonation and articulation may need tons of work to get it right. ---------- Sincerely, Barbeque Bob Maglinte Boston, MA http://www.barbequebob.com CD available at http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/bbmaglinte
barbequebob. Yes, that's exactly what I'm talking about.
marine1896 - actually those two vids are just the kind of thing I need. Nice one. Watching these, suddenly the reason for Adam's focus on the particular Overbends he uses falls into place. The horn phrases often have chromatic runs here and there.
Pre internet this is how anyone would have approached this I remember years ago doing it with Joe Liggins - Little Joe's Boogie with a slightly different approach/arrangement and the cats to listen to are William Clarke, George Smith and Rod Piazza and others and for sax IMHO it has to be Arnett Cobb, Joe Houston, Gene Ammons,Little Willie Jackson (The Honeydripper), Willis Jackson obviously there are tons more.
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"Those British boys want to play the blues real bad, and they do"
Last Edited by marine1896 on Dec 17, 2015 3:46 AM
Right now, the big octave sound is beyond me, something to learn. Also I think it needs the low notes of the 16-hole chromatic, does it? Which currently I don't own. So Adam's examples, more of a single-note style and in a similar register to the my 12-hole chromatic, are the most useful.
Last Edited by MindTheGap on Dec 17, 2015 1:36 AM
The octaves on the Chrom came to me easy, but it does take practice as usual, to move around and then move around at speed without your lips drying out and or using excessive saliva and not blowing too hard you eventually get to find out what works. I find that the brassy sax like sound of blues chromatic is in your attack and varying your vibrato and use of the button. The low notes on the bottom octave of a 64 are great through a crunchy mic for contrast of say playing some heavy bass notes then hitting the middle octave for great effect and also not playing them hard (getting someone to gap them is the way to go) but I feel the middle and upper octaves have more brassy sound on the 64. You could also explore the Marine Band Soloist in C for some 3rd position in D. I also like the 270 chrome it also has a nice brassy sound especially in the C, Bb and F. Single notes also work to an extent on blues chromatic but overall as passing notes and fills or a nice jazzy/blues line but nothing beats big fat octaves for blues and swing.
At about 6.52 big fat and dynamic...
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"Those British boys want to play the blues real bad, and they do"
Last Edited by marine1896 on Dec 17, 2015 6:47 AM
Yes I agree. At the moment, OOTB so to speak, the 4-hole split is a natural thing. So that's nice for 3rd position but I don't want to be limited to that. Spanning 5 holes doesn't seem practical without surgery but I maybe I'll look back and wonder what the fuss was about.
I remember learning to bend, huffing and puffing at first while listening to examples of people coolly bend 2 hole to the floor. Thinking...how??? Now it's like mother's milk.
Last Edited by MindTheGap on Dec 17, 2015 8:05 AM
