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Dirty-South Blues Harp forum: wail on! >
rolling off the treble, increasing bass
rolling off the treble, increasing bass
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blueswannabe
576 posts
Aug 11, 2015
6:08 PM
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I thought it would be interesting to know what your treble and bass settings are on your amps. Or if you have just a tone control, where do you set it. please specify and type of amp.
Kalammazoo Model 2 Tone set at level 3 or 9'0clock.
Mission 32x20 Bass set at 2'oclock and treble set at 11 o'clock.
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BigBlindRay
260 posts
Aug 11, 2015
6:32 PM
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I tend to adjust Bass and Treble depending on the room im playing in and the mic im using.
I typically switch between either a Shure 545 that Greg H made up and a Shure 520 with a CM element.
The bullet has more bottom end so ill work the treble moreso to get ample top cut whereas the 545 characteristically has more top cut so I tend to work the bass a bit more on that.
EQing your sound is a dynamic process because rooms and playing situations are constantly changing and evolving, What might work for one space may not work for another. For me - Making sure the amp has enough power and speaker real estate is fundamental along with ensuring it is positioned well on the bandstand.
A good amped sound is one thing but I find working on developing a good stage sound for the band makes a great difference
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- BigBlindRay
BigBlindRay website
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Listen to my music here
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SuperBee
2764 posts
Aug 11, 2015
7:21 PM
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I agree with BBR that it's often not so simple as a regular setting for the amp, but I can generalise about my amps:
My silver face Princeton reverb and my vibrochamp Xd start with treble all the way down and bass all the way up. This does not result in a muddy sound. It sounds about right. You can add treble but I've never felt the need. Those are some pretty bright amps
My 410 Deville starts with bass around 7, mid around 4-5, treble 2-4. That's not exactly a stock amp. It's entirely possible to make that muddy. Prescence has to be considered also. Nb, the pots are calibrated to 12.
With my epi vj, the tone moves toward cutting treble as the volume rises. If it's turned up to where the amp starts ringing, I turn the tone a little anti-clockwise until the ringing stops.
My Ashton viper 30 has 3 band EQ and its kinda similar to the Deville but it also has a tone-shift switch that will cut some of the fuller bass tones and reduces feedback.
Mouse...tone is always on the anticlockwise side of 10 O'clock
My Deluxe (hot rod) would be similar to Deville I think.
That's all of them that have tone stacks I think, apart from the film osound and the Kreisler but they're somewhat too modded to be helpful.
As a rule I'd roll off the treble somewhat. But with the exception of the SFPR and VCXD I'm not a fan of cranking the bass too much
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Gipsy
170 posts
Aug 11, 2015
11:32 PM
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Does anyone use an EQ pedal to help shape their sound. I run my mic into an MXR 10 Graphic equaliser pedal. Lots of scope for shaping the sound, as well as the option of dialling out feedback issues related to specific frequencies.
Interestingly I just picked up a cheap Behringer bass EQ pedal. It works particularly well with my solid state Roland Cube Street EX. Haven't tried it yet with my VHT special 6, or my newly acquired Harp Gear Double Trouble.
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Martin
852 posts
Aug 12, 2015
5:02 AM
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For most types of amplified plying I use a Boss Bass Parametriq EQ. It has very nice features but can be a bit awkward at first. When you´ve learnt to dial in the sound you want you can push the "level" button up a bit, giving you some dirt in the sound.
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rogonzab
783 posts
Aug 12, 2015
8:15 AM
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The best eq fr you is:
YOUR HANDS!
Whit a good cup, you can get all the bass you want, and you take away a lot of treble. I have working in my cup for the last 2 years, and now I alway put more mids than bass, and more treble than before.
I use my Laney Cub 10 whit the tone in 3or4/10
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Sorry for any misspell, english is not my first language.
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hvyj
2729 posts
Aug 12, 2015
9:36 AM
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Harmonica sounds fat if you pump up 240-250 Hz which is low mids. Except in a stock Princeton Reverb, I am not a fan of cranking up the bass. Fwiw, I consider where you set the midrange ( if u have a midrange control) to be more important. BUT I don't use bullet mic's, which may or may not involve different considerations.
Last Edited by hvyj on Aug 12, 2015 9:38 AM
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The Iceman
2618 posts
Aug 12, 2015
9:42 AM
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You can't decide what sounds great for you by reading what others do.
Spend lotsa time with amp, mic, harp. Twist those dials from 1 to 11 and craft your own sound.
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The Iceman
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barbequebob
3001 posts
Aug 12, 2015
10:39 AM
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Don't get married to any one setting because you have take into account the mic you use plus the way the circuitry of the amp works and what works in one amp will be wrong in another. As an example, most Fender tube amps (with the exception of the tan/brown amps like the 4-10 Concert, 2-10 Super, Vibroverb) uses passive tone controls, which means when all the controls are turned all the way up, you're at the flat factory response and all the tone controls do is cut and they don't boost ANYTHING. On the tan/brown Fenders like the ones I mentioned and most UK made amps like Marshalls, Vox, and solid state amps, the controls are what's call active and either side of half way, you're actually boosting and cutting for real. On those amps with the active circuitry, first turn the controls to half way and start from there to a setting that's right for ears.
Some mics have much more bottom and mids than others as well as treble, so don't get married to any particular settings.
On amps where the power tubes are 6L6/5881's, the version of these tubes can matter. Now those two tubes have been thought of as interchangeable for years, but the real deal on each is different, requiring different amp biasings and they have different characteristics. A true 5881 has much more bottom end and midrange, especially lower midrange than a 6L6, and a true 5881 is a shorter bottle tube than a true 6L6 and 6L6's are gonna be more trebly, and depending on the brand, louder. The only true 5881's in present production are the Tung Sol 5881 reissues, the new JJ 5881's, and the TAD 6L6WGB's, which are a copy of the 6L6/5881's that GE made from the mid 50's to the mid 60's, and with those, you will need less bass than if you used the taller bottle 6L6's or the 5881's made under the Ruby and Sovtek brands, and the first sign or wear down is when the bass response gets mushy.
The very first BDV amps were based on the 4-10 tweed Bassman amps and regardless of what mic I used, I always turn the treble off completely, just like with my real '59 Bassman and then find the bass and middle that works. If you have the taller bottle 6L6 types like I mentioned, I usually have the bass somewhere between 8 and 10 but never cranked. If you use the shorter bottle 5881's (remember, those amps came stock with the taller bottle 6L6's and you HAVE to rebias the amp FIRST before switching to 5881's or those tubes will blow out fast or get fried). An inbetween 6L6 to consider would be the reissue Tung Sol 6L6GC-STR's, which is a bit louder than a real 5881 but is less trebly and has more mids and bottom end than the taller 6L6 types or the Ruby/Sovtek 5881's and in a stock BDV, you don't have to rebias first.
So what brand tubes you use in the amp can also affect how you set it up and just because the tube numbers are the same in all the different brands, the one thing to remember is that each brand has a different sound altogether and so you may have to adjust your settings accordingly.
I've found most graphic EQ's hurt more than help and if you need more volume, you're better off buying either a Kinder AFB pedal or a Squeal Killer because they do a far better job than any equalizer ever will do and room acoustics vary QUITE A LOT, and there's also a spot where EQ's are, from experience, gonna be largely useless.
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Sincerely,
Barbeque Bob Maglinte
Boston, MA
http://www.barbequebob.com
CD available at http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/bbmaglinte
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walterharp
1662 posts
Aug 12, 2015
6:24 PM
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what i really do not like about the sound of pumping the bass way up on a big amp is the increase in breath sound as i do this. i try to make my chest a large resonator for tone, but this means the deep tones of my breathing make lots of deep bass sound. these tones are way below what most harps make, but they give it a strange sound that i do not like. also listening to the harp players i like, they do not seem to crank the bass so much
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jpmcbride
103 posts
Aug 12, 2015
7:15 PM
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Another thing to consider ...
What sounds good coming out of your amp solo, may not sound right with a band. I learned this when I was a sound man. The acoustic guitars would setup a nice deep bass tone - think about a guy playing and singing solo with a big Martin acoustic. Sounds great solo, but is completely buried or at least muddy when the rest of the band cranks up. The guys that knew what they were doing would setup their acoustic with a high trebley tone that was not very pleasing solo, but it cut through the band and added a lot to the overall sound of the band - which is the point, right? Make the band sound good.
So be flexible and turn that tone knob to whatever it takes to sound good in the room your playing, with the band your with, and keep feedback under control. Personally I mostly find myself leaning toward the bass at home, then turning up the treble with the band.
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Jim McBride
www.bottleoblues.com
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indigo
141 posts
Aug 12, 2015
10:49 PM
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good advice Jim,that's exactly the approach i came to after years of trial and error.Mostly error;_0
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Gipsy
171 posts
Aug 12, 2015
11:23 PM
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@barbequebob. Thanks for your detailed explanation. The exact details are way beyond my my needs, but what I do take from your advice ( and I hope I'm correct ) is that each and every amp has its own personality which can be modified to enhance the amp/mic/player interaction. That suggest there is no 'one fits all' solution, more a logical series of adjustments that are available to us.
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kudzurunner
5594 posts
Aug 13, 2015
2:56 AM
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I particularly like what Iceman and BBQ Bob (and Jim McBride) have to say, but there's a lot of useful advice here.
My two cents:
1) Treble is important, but be careful, especially if, as I do, you play a lot of high notes. When I adjust my tone control, I mostly roll off the high end to the point where my high notes aren't piercing, then make sure that I've got enough treble when I'm playing forcefully in the middle register.
2) WHATEVER you do, make sure that you walk out in front of your amp, using the full length of your cord, and listen to it from the audience perspective. Stand directly in front of the amp, at some distance from it, so that you're directly on axis. You may need to adjust treble down a bit when you do that! But then also walk to either side, at least 45 degrees off axis (90 degrees being when you stand directly to the side of the amp) and play like that, assessing the sound. You'll notice a sharp dropoff in treble when you do that. The key is to balance the sound so that it's bright enough when you're off axis and not too piercing when you're on axis.
Getting your tone right is a sorcerer's art. Things will need to be tweaked slightly in every room--and that is assuming you've actually got the right mic/amp combination, one capable of delivering a workable sound. If you don't, thenh you'll have problems no matter how you adjust the tone controls.
Last Edited by kudzurunner on Aug 13, 2015 2:57 AM
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Barley Nectar
884 posts
Aug 13, 2015
7:01 AM
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Good point there Kudzu. The high end beam that comes off the center of the speaker "on axis". Weber Speakers makes a product called a Beam Blocker, that will disperse this beam and spread it across the room. This gives a more even tonal distribution, front of house. These do work although they take some getting used to.
Another trick I learned is to place your vocal mic in front of your amp and aimed at the speaker axis. Amp tilted back and mic up high tilted down. When doing fills and comps, stand between the mic and amp. When taking a lead, step off to the side. Now you mic is pointed at your speaker and you get reinforcement from the mains. This also spreads your sound and makes the high end beam, less significant.
Not really the same as micing the amp...BN
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