doctom
24 posts
Aug 07, 2015
2:23 PM
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Hey guys,
I'm playing through a bassman LTD with a loud band and am having trouble getting my volume where it needs to be. What is the best mic to maximize volume when micing the amp through the PA?
I also have a VHT SP 6. Should I try the 2 amp thing and if so what's the best way to set it up?
Any other advice on getting big volume without screwing up tone would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks!
Tom
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didjcripey
950 posts
Aug 07, 2015
3:01 PM
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Don't know if its necessarily the best, but shure sm57's work fine.
My experience suggests that when the music is that loud, tone becomes irrelevant; all subtle nuances and overtones become lost in a big muddy wall of sound.
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Lucky Lester
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SuperBee
2757 posts
Aug 07, 2015
3:05 PM
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Hi Tom,
I dunno 'best' but we always used sm57 or sometimes those sennheiser 609/906 mics...I carried my own 57 for a long time but just about always the venue/sound engineer provided it. Those 2 (3?) types seemed to be what they always used for the amps.
57 works best with a stand or clip so you can point it at the speaker, whereas the sennheiser will be oriented correctly from a dangle and just use a bit of tape if it needs some help to stay put
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1847
2660 posts
Aug 07, 2015
6:20 PM
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My experience suggests that when the music is that loud, tone becomes irrelevant;
truer words were never spoke.
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Barley Nectar
876 posts
Aug 07, 2015
6:22 PM
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I like the Audix D3. Great for instrument although it is a drum mic. Excellent rejection, will reproduce high sounds levels cleanly. Small physical size but does need a clip and stand of some sort. durable also...BN
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Dr.Hoy
86 posts
Aug 07, 2015
6:44 PM
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I vote for the Shure 57.
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A440
430 posts
Aug 08, 2015
1:32 AM
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Yes - SM57... For best results use a mic stand to get it perpendicular to speaker, as opposed hanging it over the front of speaker pointed to the floor.
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Harmonica Lewinskey
79 posts
Aug 08, 2015
1:38 AM
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http://www.modernbluesharmonica.com/harmonica_amps.html
Go to the link above (it is the section of this site about playing through an amp) and Adam talks about this exact thing and recommends and talks in detail about the perfect mic for doing what you need. I think he also explains the two amp thing on that same page.
SPOILER ALERT!! The mic is called the Sennheiser Evolution e906
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-LeWin$key
Last Edited by Harmonica Lewinskey on Aug 08, 2015 1:41 AM
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doctom
25 posts
Aug 08, 2015
6:51 AM
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Thanks guys, Ill go with the '57 and also try the 2 amp thing.
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dougharps
995 posts
Aug 08, 2015
8:01 AM
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Is it that you can't hear yourself on stage, the guitar players can't hear you, or that you can't be heard front of the house? These are different issues with different solutions. Here are some of my ideas on this.
If it is an issue of volume before feedback limiting your volume on stage, then mic'ing to the PA may not do the job for you. I have seen players try to just stick a mic on the amp and fail. They just end up amplifying weak tone and feedback to the PA.
Before relying on the PA to amplify your amp's sound I think you should explore how to get the most from your Bassman LTD. You should be able to generate a MASSIVE amount of volume with that amp without sound reinforcement from the PA. Feedback can limit your volume on stage. On really loud stages some use anti-feedback devices. I would suggest experimenting in these ways to get more volume:
1) amp placement - try different positions for the amp and where you stand. If you are standing in front of the amp, be sure to keep your body between the mic and the amp. Try other positions relative to the amp, too. If your amp is loud enough out front, but you can't hear yourself on stage, try to find a way to hear yourself. If you stand in front of it and can't hear, maybe it is because you are aiming the sound at the back of your knees. Put the amp on a chair, or tilt the amp.
If it is an issue of volume out front and not on stage, try standing with the amp to your side. Envision the sound from your amp as an hourglass shape, sound radiating in front of and behind the amp, with you beside the narrow part. You should be able to turn up more.
2) Using an amp as a monitor - In some situations you can set up your amp as a monitor for yourself and mic to the PA for front of the house volume. You aim the amp tilted up at your face, use a directional mic, and just make sure your can hear yourself over loud guitars. Mic to the PA for front of the house volume. A Bassman LTD may be overkill if you try this approach.
3) amp eq - experiment and adjust!
4) mics, mic handling, and cupping - if you are using an omnidirectional bullet be really careful to avoid the mic picking up sound on a loud stage and feeding back. A directional mic is easier to manage in a loud environment than an omni. I like the 585SAV, but many use a Shure SM57 or SM58 and a transformer. A volume control can help manage a mic that is really hot, keeping you below the feedback threshold. I suggest trying several different mics with any amp to find which combination works best for you.
Get a good tight cup on your mic to get maximum volume. I have seen players struggle with thin tone and feedback due to mic handling issues. They don't cup well and despite decent chops, have poor acoustic tone.
5)poor acoustic tone/resonance - Turning up the amp or using the PA to amplify thin tone doesn't solve the problem. You can't rely on the amp to improve your tone and resonance. This is something we each have to continue to improve in our playing as an ongoing task. Turning up the amp to compensate for thin tone will result in feedback issues. (I will never reach a point where I believe I have mastered my tone and resonance, but I have improved a LOT by working on acoustic tone and resonance.) At jams or when asked to sit in I have picked up other player's mics and played through their rigs and after playing have been asked to turn down by band members. The difference is immediately evident: Same rig, different results... My best example of good tone and resonance is Deak Harp. Greg Heumann is pretty darn good, too.
If the problem is that the guitar players in your band don't care about how the band sounds and each are turning up to 11 to make it all about them, you cannot win, no matter how good you and your gear are. When you make music the overall sound is what matters. Too much ego in players showing off hurts the overall music.
I think Greg Heumann has a mic information download that addresses a lot of what I have covered. I hope some of the above is useful.
Finally, with regard to what mic to use to mic an amp to the PA, the SM57 has been the standard, and the Sennheiser e609 and e906 have good reputations and are perhaps easier to set up. If you have an Audix Fireball V laying around, it will work to mic an amp, too.
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Doug S.
Last Edited by dougharps on Aug 08, 2015 8:07 AM
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Barley Nectar
880 posts
Aug 08, 2015
8:36 AM
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Excellent info there Doug. Great of you to take the time to post all that.
On feedback, which I suspect is the OP's problem. A bad (microphonic) tube will cause problems at high sound pressure levels. It is simple to test your tubes for this. Take the tube shields off your tubes and turn the amp on. Set your V at about 3-4 tones to 5. Now lightly tap on your tubes with a pencil. You will hear this tapping in the speaker, but it will not be loud. If you find a tube, that when tapped, is substantially louder thru the speaker, replace that tube and try again. This applies to the power tubes also. The first preamp tube, V1, will be slightly louder when taped because it is first in the amplification chain. If in doubt, swap it and try again. There are other components in an amp which can go microphonic also. These can be difficult to locate and a visit to a good tech may be necessary if you think there is a problem. Have one of your guitar buddies plug into that Bassman and get his opinion with the amp cranked.
Doug's advise on your position, relative to the amp is very important. Good luck...BN
Last Edited by Barley Nectar on Aug 08, 2015 8:37 AM
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1847
2663 posts
Aug 08, 2015
10:32 AM
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i use the fireball to mic my amp on occasion.
i have a clamp on the mic stand so i can point it straight at the speaker. works very well in this application.
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shakeylee
350 posts
Aug 09, 2015
11:13 AM
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57 is the standard,with good reason.
i think everyone should own at least one 57 and a 58 before anything else.
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www.shakeylee.com
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indigo
140 posts
Aug 09, 2015
3:19 PM
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My vote goes to the Seinheiser drape over mikes.If you end up playing on small stages, a 57 on a stand can be very susceptible to being kicked over by another band member or even yourself if your movin' around a bit.Had it happen to me a couple of times.
No one will ever accidentally move the sennheiser.
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