Martin
837 posts
Jul 22, 2015
4:04 PM
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The other day we had a session and I thought that I was going to forfeit my usual microphones and effects and record straight into the small 5 W amplifier with a Green Bullet (haven´t used that one in a long time).
Then for reference I plugged in the Audix.
The difference was astounding. The GB was very harsh and trebly in comparison, and only allowed me to go to 7 on the volume; the Audix had warmth and bass and I could go all the way up to 12.
The Audix is the cheaper alternative -- I got mine for a song. It confirmed my suspicion that a GB is more grief than anything else.
Just a note for you who are starting out and think that no harmonica player is complete without a Green Bullet.
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Harpaholic
705 posts
Jul 22, 2015
4:52 PM
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Fireball is a decent mic, too bassy for my taste.
The one I played was low Z. I could see them being good with a bright amp.
For the money ( on sale at times for $49.99)
The Red Howler is my first choice. I bought two on sale at MF, one to use as a donor shell and one for grins. The two I bought seem to be put together well, and they sound dam good through all my amps.
I have many CR/CM/Crystal mics so I know what a great mic sounds like.
Much better than a Roadhouse or modern green bullet!
If your into stick mics, an Electro Voice 635A is tough to beat, they do require a impedance matching transformer.
Ron Sunshine's videos convinced me to try one.
I found a NOS one on EBay.
Last Edited by Harpaholic on Jul 22, 2015 4:59 PM
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Barley Nectar
857 posts
Jul 22, 2015
5:10 PM
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I can not disagree with you on this. I assume that you speak of the MIM green bullet by Shure. *I believe that the 635 is an excellent mic. Very true sound but I find it hard to hold in a cup. Gives me hand cramps. Would be good on a mic stand but I rarely play that way...BN
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Harpaholic
706 posts
Jul 22, 2015
6:59 PM
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That's the only downside of the 635. If only someone made a bulletizer for it.
I've thought about trying to install the element in a 533 shell, one of these days I will see if its possible.
Last Edited by Harpaholic on Jul 22, 2015 7:03 PM
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didjcripey
940 posts
Jul 23, 2015
1:38 AM
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Yeah, cm's and especially cr.'s are really hyped up rubbish. Stop buying them, and send any that you have lying around to me.
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Lucky Lester
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Martin
838 posts
Jul 23, 2015
4:26 AM
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My mic selection is not very impressive: a Shure GB, an Audix fireball, a vintage Beyer, and a few cheapo tape recorder gadgets.
So there´s not a whole lot to use in comparison; it was just the highly evident performance difference between the GB and Audix that struck us all in the studio.
My next purchase is going to be an SM57.
Then I think it´s about it.
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Greg Heumann
3052 posts
Jul 23, 2015
7:48 AM
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These are two completely different animals. If you want an overdriven sound the Fireball ain't gonna do it for you. It is a one trick pony - cupping it hardly changes its tone because it has incredibly high headroom. If all you want is a nice warm clean acoustic tone it is a great mic.
The modern green bullet is harsh UNLESS you learn how to cup, WELL.
The Heumann Element is much less harsh, has good bottom, and DOES respond to cupping. A good choice for you if you have a shell to put it in.
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***************************************************
/Greg
BlowsMeAway Productions
See my Customer Mics album on Facebook
Bluestate on iTunes
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dougharps
975 posts
Jul 23, 2015
8:44 AM
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I have got to agree with Greg about them being very different mics for different purposes. I have one of each (Fireball V and a bullet mic CM element in biscuit shell) and like each for different purposes. My Shure 585AV falls somewhere in between, having a little grit, good bottom, dirtier than the Fireball, but much cleaner than the CM, and has proximity effect unlike the Fireball V. My SM 58 (Ultimate) is a good vocal mic and good for acoustic harp and cupped driven clean harp.
@Martin
Regarding the SM 57, a mic that I think is a good all purpose mic and recommend as a first mic, why do you want one? You seem to have a good selection of mics with those and the Beyer. The Fireball V can be used (with a transformer) with amp modelers and can also be used to mic amps to a PA. I over purchased on other mics (EV630s high and low z, Shure 55SH Series II, Sennheiser e 835, etc.) and I find that I mainly use the Ultimate 58, the 585AV, and the CM Biscuit to cover my mic needs. The SM57 is a good mic, but it sits in my case as a backup most of the time. I would make sure I really needed one before spending the cash.
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Doug S.
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Martin
839 posts
Jul 23, 2015
10:32 AM
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@Greg: I´ll have to post a sound sample from that session when I get one. I think it´s perfectly describable as "overdriven".
I -think- I can cup my GB. Been doing it for quite a while now. But of course, you never know.
@ Doug: I get what you´re saying. It would be mostly for backup, or for micing the amp -- otherwise I´m kinda satisfied. (And I´m not one of those who´s always in need of another mic, amp, what have you.)
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tomaxe
50 posts
Jul 23, 2015
10:54 AM
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@Martin:
What is this 5W amp your are plugging directly into? In my experience almost ANY mic, hi or low z, will achieve a somewhat overdriven sound when pushed into a very low wattage amp. A 5W amp pushed to the max may not be a great test for the subtleties of various microphones. This is why even a clean mic like the Audix may sound overdriven. The fact that you were able to turn the amp up to "12" illustrates that it's a less hot mic than the GB...
None of this really matters as long as you like your sound and it worked in the studio...but plugging into a 5W amp does not seem like a fair test for a decision on one mic vs. another mic.
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1847
2593 posts
Jul 23, 2015
11:04 AM
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i have never owned a green bullet so i cannot comment there
i do own two audix fireball mic's, one i sometimes use to mic the amp
you can dangle it over the cabinet, or i can attach it to a mic stand to point directly at the speaker
works extremely well in that application.
the other one i use on occasion, to me it is the ultimate 58
very easy to hold super comfortable. if i run it into the kinder antifeedback unit
a very nice orverdriven sound can be had. surprisingly versatile mic.
i believe carey bell would unscrew the top off his stick mic possibly to get the proximity effect
so that may also work on this mic i will have to try that sometime
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Martin
840 posts
Jul 23, 2015
11:43 AM
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@tomaxe: It´s called "Tweed-tone". Inexpensive Chinese stuff, slightly modifed for harmonica -- some new tubes, I believe.
I know zilch about the tech stuff, low z,hi z, impedance or whatever. I just plug a mic, in this case an Audix, into an amp.
Maybe I´running the risk of being electrocuted?
Of course, my test just stands for what came out of that particular situation. However, it wasn´t uninteresting, I thought, that the difference was so pronounced in volume and warmth -- esp. in view of the Audix being the cheaper alternative.
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Martin
842 posts
Jul 23, 2015
5:40 PM
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@timeistight: As I say above, a Shure GB. Are there other types/more specifications outside of that?
My ignorance is limitless, I´m afraid.
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timeistight
1826 posts
Jul 23, 2015
6:19 PM
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When the Spam bucket gets cleared I'll show you a link to a website all about the various types of Green Bullets.
If you bought it new, it's probably a 520DX.
By the way, I hope you're running the Fireball through an impedance matching transformer. Otherwise, you're not getting all it can deliver.
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Greg Heumann
3054 posts
Jul 24, 2015
9:02 AM
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@Martin re "I -think- I can cup my GB. Been doing it for quite a while now. But of course, you never know."
Here's the thing. In my experience (and in this particular area I have a LOT of it) -MOST players think they cup well, but in fact very few actually do. The reason I said that is because when you are able to cup really well, it naturally reduces the treble content of your tone and therefore significantly reduces harshness.
How can you tell? When you play acoustically, can you cup tightly enough to FULLY MUTE THE HARP? That is hard to do, trust me. And of course fully muting the harp would defeat the purpose of playing, but until you can get there, you don't know how close you are. When you play in the range I'm talking about, you are backing off from that point by very, very slight amounts (and opening further for effect at times. ) Your "wahs will be remarkably deep and powerful.
When you can do this amplified, you get the "wah" benefit AND it warms up the tone significantly.
The most misunderstood aspect of this (though I've been preaching it for a long time) is the importance of sealing off the unplayed holes on the front of the harp. Even if your harp/hand/mic connection is airtight, a significant amount of sound pressure escapes out the front of the harmonica too. It isn't until you can literally seal off ALL escape paths, you don't know how close you're getting to this "phenomenon".
Older elements with lower frequency response cutoffs tend to help reduce harshness when we aren't there yet. But newer elements like what is in the Model 520DX green bullet have more high frequency response, which DOES make them sound harsher until you can control that with cupping technique. This is one of the reasons old vintage elements have always been so popular with harp players (and why the new The Heumann Element exists.)
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***************************************************
/Greg
BlowsMeAway Productions
See my Customer Mics album on Facebook
Bluestate on iTunes
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mlefree
346 posts
Jul 24, 2015
10:21 AM
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Further to Greg's point.
I'll avoid naming a certain west coast pro players real name here so I'll call him "Bob." I was astonished at Bob's 2010 SPAH stage performance. Bob only had his personal mic' and amp when he asked Steve Baker to join in.
Bob played a mean solo and handed his mic' off to Steve. Steve made Bob's rig absolutely come alive by any comparison. Different as night and day. His bass notes shook the room where only a moment before Bob's were relatively anemic. I was actually a bit embarrassed for Bob who seemed later to be a genuinely nice fellow.
I asked Steve later what the deal was. He simply said, "Uh... Well, I know how to cup a mic'."
That pretty much said it all for me. I went directly to the woodshed wen I got home.
And Greg is right again. One must start with acoustic cupping to understand what you are shooting for when you cup a mic'. One of my favorite players and teachers, Paul Davies, can cup a mic' so tight that he can sound the high-end reeds (that are outside his cup -- these are the holes that Greg points out you must block with your thumb when you cup a harp). That's what to shoot for with your acoustic cup.
Depending on your hand size and how fleshy it is as well as the harps you play you will have to resort to various means to perfect your own cup. I can only site one example from my own learning experience. Paul can straighten his index finger and thumb straight out so as to conform perfectly to the surfaces of the cover plates. For whatever reason this is uncomfortable for me for any length of time. It is much more natural for me to have my index finger and thumb slightly relaxed. But that leaves little sort of half-circles gaps along the covers. I've learned to fill those little gaps with my lips.
Another thing is I was amazed how much a difference cupping your hands HARD makes. You just can't get a good, solid acoustic cup without really clamping down. Nor can you with a microphone. I don't have much meat on my hands to I have to clamp so hard that it almost hurts.
Once you've got an effective acoustic cup as witnessed by Greg's mute test, you're ready to start the process over again with your microphone. But now you know two things: what you are shooting for and how to get there.
Michelle
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SilverWingLeather.com
email: mlefree@silverwingleather.com
Last Edited by mlefree on Jul 24, 2015 10:31 AM
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Popculture Chameleon
87 posts
Jul 24, 2015
5:19 PM
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My first mic was a green bullet. I honestly thought it was a good mic though it is very hard For me at least to cup it properly- then I found the Shaker Mad Dog mic and never stopped using it until I got my now go to mic the Blows Me Away Productions 545. I honestly don't think one is better than the other though each mic has its good and bad points- I say try every mic you can and keep the ones you like for your playing style. I have never tried a fireball mic yet though I want to.
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Gipsy
166 posts
Jul 25, 2015
11:34 PM
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Thanks Greg and Mlefree for those 2 posts. It helps point me in the right direction. The idea of shutting of as many outlets for the 'trapped' air makes so much sense. When I get it right playing acoustically, I get a feeling of back pressure and occasionally the high end draw reeds sound albeit quietly.
I can only get this feeling using special 20 harps. When playing MB's I'm sure too much air is escaping via the vented cover plates. I've small hands and there is no way I can block off these holes, but would I be right in thinking that's what players of MB's are doing?
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Thievin' Heathen
572 posts
Jul 26, 2015
8:05 AM
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Greg,
Are you selling The Heumann Element separately these days? I think I'd like to soup up my JT30 Roadhouse (impulse purchase) if one would slip right in.
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Greg Heumann
3056 posts
Jul 26, 2015
8:10 AM
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@Gipsy
Yes - it is much harder to fully cup harps with side vents. Some people tape over them. You can do this on the inside of the covers so it doesn't show much.
@ThievenH:
The Heumann Element is indeed for sale and it fits fine in a JT30RH - however the volume pot in that mic is a 5Mohm pot - it will be like an on-off switch with THE or any dynamic element so it needs to be changed out. I can do that for you if you like.
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***************************************************
/Greg
BlowsMeAway Productions
See my Customer Mics album on Facebook
Bluestate on iTunes
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Gipsy
167 posts
Jul 27, 2015
10:59 PM
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Thanks for that Greg. I think I'll give that a try.
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