srussell
33 posts
Apr 03, 2015
10:39 AM
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Since it has welded reeds that I can't move out of the way with a reed wrench, can this be done? What's the best tool since I'm assuming you'd want to do both sides at once to move them together, or is it worth it with suzuki's already pretty tight tolerances? just curious what others experiences have been.
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arzajac
1623 posts
Apr 03, 2015
10:52 AM
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http://www.modernbluesharmonica.com/board/board_topic/5560960/5485737.htm
Yes, you can emboss full-slot on a harp with welded reeds. Yes, there is benefit.
In fact, it's way better (and safer) to do light-to medium embossing full-slot than doing heavy embossing just at the free end. You get more of the positive effects of embossing (increased volume, better response) and less of the negative effects (thin tone, buzzing)
You can use a sizing tool to get the job done.
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Custom overblow harps. Harmonica service and repair.
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WinslowYerxa
840 posts
Apr 03, 2015
11:17 AM
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The UST sizing tool invented by Dick Sjoeberg and later adapted and manufactured by Seydel is one possibility:
http://www.seydel1847.de/epages/Seydel1847.sf/secd8c0bed725/?ObjectPath=/Shops/Seydel/Products/40004
Another is to use a planer blade, dragging the sharp end along the edge of the slot: http://www.sears.com/powertec-128305-3-1-4-inch-planer-blades-for/p-00935809000P?prdNo=11&blockNo=11&blockType=G11
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Winslow
Check out my blog and other goodies at winslowyerxa.com
Harmonica For Dummies, Second Edition with tons of new stuff
Deepen your playing at the Harmonica Collective
Last Edited by WinslowYerxa on Apr 03, 2015 4:14 PM
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srussell
34 posts
Apr 03, 2015
11:56 AM
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@ Andrew - you're saying use a sizing tool and do the full slot - From your videos that would mean running it along each side of the slot and checking as you go - as opposed to using a ball bearing and running along both sides of the slot.
@Winslow - I had totally forgotten about that tool. Wouldn't the router blade cut into the reed plate - like an xacto blade? I thought you wanted to use something rounded and soft to nudge the metal into the slot?
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GMaj7
659 posts
Apr 03, 2015
12:24 PM
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Srussell,
Why would want to?
Is there something or some technique you can't achieve?
What is your goal here?
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Greg Jones
16:23 Custom Harmonicas
greg@1623customharmonicas.com
1623customharmonicas.com
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srussell
35 posts
Apr 03, 2015
12:38 PM
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Greg - just to get a better tone and more control over the harp. While I like my tone, and I like the responsiveness of my harps if I can learn to improve it why wouldn't I? I do overblow some, and I don't have any problems doing what I want, but thought I'd try it. I have some reed plates I just switched out that are still basically fine - it was easier to change the plates - that I can use to try it on and see if I like the results. From what I've read embossing generally is supposed to give you a more easily responsive reed to bending, etc., quicker attack and give you more volume with less effort. Seems like this would be the next step after gapping.
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arzajac
1624 posts
Apr 03, 2015
1:23 PM
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Srussell: I would offer that reed work can result in a greater impact on tone, response and control than embossing. If the reed shape is all wrong, embossing won't help. Once the reed shape is good, embossing would be the next step to get more performance out of it.
But don't let anyone tell you that the harp is good enough already. Maybe it's good enough for some, but there's nothing wrong with a better harp. You shouldn't feel guilty or anything...
A well playing harp is a joy. The more you enjoy it, the less work it is to practice.
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Custom overblow harps. Harmonica service and repair.
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GMaj7
661 posts
Apr 03, 2015
4:11 PM
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My personal opinion is that these techniques are over rated..and not necessary. There seems to be the notion among the forums that they are required.
If you already OB/OD, I don't think you will see a noticeable improvement.
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Greg Jones
16:23 Custom Harmonicas
greg@1623customharmonicas.com
1623customharmonicas.com
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WinslowYerxa
841 posts
Apr 03, 2015
4:13 PM
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A planer blade won't gouge the slot if you drag the sharp end behind the stroke instead of pushing it ahead of the stroke.
BTW I learned this technique from Australian customizer Neil Graham years before the UST was developed.
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Winslow
Check out my blog and other goodies at winslowyerxa.com
Harmonica For Dummies, Second Edition with tons of new stuff
Deepen your playing at the Harmonica Collective
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srussell
36 posts
Apr 03, 2015
5:52 PM
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@Andrew - I'll have to see if I can work on that first then.
@Winslow - oh duh! that makes perfect sense. Thank you!
@Greg - maybe true. I don't believe its necessary, but worth a shot to see if it improves the responsiveness of the instrument. Haven't lost anything if I don't really notice a difference.
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GMaj7
662 posts
Apr 03, 2015
6:31 PM
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I think the danger of forums is that posters convince players they need stuff that they don't.
The Suzuki Manji is manufactured to the highest of specs and personally I think time is better spent learning new and creative musical patterns, etc..
But I will be interested in hearing/seeing the results.
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Greg Jones
16:23 Custom Harmonicas
greg@1623customharmonicas.com
1623customharmonicas.com
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Gnarly
1297 posts
Apr 03, 2015
7:09 PM
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Hi--I am the guy who gets to repair the Suzuki harps during their one year warranty. I have embossed Manjis in some instances, but find that the clearances are generally pretty tight, and the Manji is plenty bright, which is the other reason I might emboss.
Flat sanding the draw plate, OTOH, seems like a more routine kind of improvement. And gapping will always improve a harp response.
Oh, and I have been using the UST, which I acquired privately.
Last Edited by Gnarly on Apr 03, 2015 7:10 PM
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FilipJers
9 posts
Apr 06, 2015
1:10 AM
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I highly recommend the UST-tool by Dick Sjoeberg. Be sure to use some kind of mineral oil for the tool to slide smoothly.
Focus on the base of the reed, and due to personals preference in sound and responce, maybe do a full slot embossing.
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HarpNinja
4071 posts
Apr 06, 2015
5:25 AM
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I wouldn't put embossing as my primary mod for the Manji. The tolerances are pretty tight. I think out-of-the-box, the stock comb is far from flat, the reedplates are often warped, and the gapping of the reeds(especially near the base) is high.
I would attack all those areas first. Steel reeds are often leaky at the base too and benefit from reshaping the reed to sit closer to the reed slot.
YMMV. I really like handmade Hohners and steel Seydels and chose not to play anything else. Lots of players love the Manji, I just haven't bonded with it.
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Mike
My Website
My Harmonica Effects Blog
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srussell
37 posts
Apr 06, 2015
7:47 AM
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@Mike - thanks for the advice. I love the crossover - favorite harp i own - but I hate it's price. My first set was manji's (I have almost a complete set - mainly cause I liked them better than the sp20 - which I felt was plastic and honky) so I'm trying to get the most out of them that I can. At some point these will probably get retired for MBs.
When I ordered new reed plates I noticed the warping - like really, really bowed - how do you fix that? I basically spent a lot of time just physically bending back into the right shape although i'm sure it wasn't completely flat again. I felt like once it was all screwed together I'm getting a good seal everywhere - at least I can't see any light. The combs actually seemed pretty flat, but maybe I wasn't looking close enough.
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WinslowYerxa
845 posts
Apr 06, 2015
7:53 AM
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Reedplates are bowed on purpose, so that when the bowed-up ends are pressed against the comb, the middle part gets extra pressure.
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Winslow
Check out my blog and other goodies at winslowyerxa.com
Harmonica For Dummies, Second Edition with tons of new stuff
Deepen your playing at the Harmonica Collective
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srussell
38 posts
Apr 06, 2015
8:01 AM
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@Winslow - I'm just learning new stuff all the time. Thanks! In a lot of ways this instrument is still very new to me, and at least as it comes to working on it I'm still getting swallowed under the learning curve. Just glad I have some old reed plates to mess with and screw up now! Looking forward to some serious trial and error.
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HarpNinja
4072 posts
Apr 06, 2015
8:02 AM
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Yup - you have to bend it.
The comb is not flat. The screws have enough pressure that you won't see the leaks, but just set the blow plate on top the comb with now screws and back light it. You'll see tons of light.
IMO, as a player more than a customizer, the Special 20 is still the easiest OOTB to deal with with the recessed comb. Granted, there is no holy grail of harp to work on, but I could play SP20's with just gapping to my style and live a full life.
Crossovers are the best playing OOTB, IMHO, but they cost more than the SP20.
I'd much rather play a customized one, but SP20's rule!
I am slowly going back to gigging after a couple years of just bursts of gigging. I'd like to eventually set up a full set of XO's for myself to parallel the 20+ Special 20's I gig with.
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Mike
My Website
My Harmonica Effects Blog
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srussell
39 posts
Apr 06, 2015
8:14 AM
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@Mike - I just didn't connect with the special 20 - to each his own. However, my crossover - I gapped it and felt like it played great right away. The crossover (in C) overblows on 4,5,6 smoothly and easily, and I love the bamboo comb. If I could afford it I'd get them in the major keys and leave the manjis as backups. Although the cost of a crossover is creeping up and rapidly approaching a customized harp from joe spiers.
I'll have to try working on the combs and the plates some and see if it makes a difference - little more scared of this because I don't have any combs just laying around. Probably need to order some from Andrew and Blue Moon to try out anyway.
@Everyone - you guys are all awesome. Thanks for helping a newbie like me figure things out. I'm continually amazed at this forum.
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