I approach music completely different than most everyone. I never practice. If I am not inspired the last thing I want to do is play my instruments. Layoffs are good things when the inspiration is not there because when it comes back everything is fresh. I feel my playing improves after spells of no inspiration. There is no rust to shake off because inspiration is there once again.
When I pick up my instruments it is always because a song inside me wants to come out. I don't know what a scale is on the harp or guitar, what key is what, but was able to make a living doing my music for 20 odd years. I detest thinking when I play. That instantly shuts me down. Discovery is my thing. I have learned the harp, guitar, drums, keys, how to record music, via discovery. For the past 10 years getting back to being a live time 1 man band and learning to make good sounding recordings have inspired me to keep playing. Keep your heart open to the unknown because it will lead you to the right places.
I am not knocking the normal way to learn/play music but just wanted to share there is another way to do music that requires no thoughts, no fears, no worries, no expectations - just pure what is inside coming out. I have been doing music this way for over 50 years and never get tired of it. Have fun and let your soul run the music not your head. Walter ---------- walter tore's spontobeat - a real one man band and over 1 million spontaneously created songs and growing. I record about 300 full length cds a year in the Tunnel of Dreams Studio. " life is a daring adventure or nothing at all" - helen keller
thats pretty much exactly what i have been doing since i picked up the harp 6 months or so ago and i think until now i did rather well
but everytime i post something i consider bluesy online someone comes round telling me its not blues normally id say i dont care but i wouldnt know what to name it then
If you concern yourself with what others say you will never go anywhere but generic and sound like they do. The easiest thing to do is mimic others and it is evident by the fact that most musicians copy others for 99% of what they do and not following these rules seriously upsets a big segment of people who call themselves musicians in what they define music as. Finding your own sound takes a long time and you are just on the intro page of a million page book. If it makes you feel good that is all that matters so enjoy the journey. If you are really inspired find a master and get inspired by them. You can't find that on internet forums unfortunately. Walter ---------- walter tore's spontobeat - a real one man band and over 1 million spontaneously created songs and growing. I record about 300 full length cds a year in the Tunnel of Dreams Studio. " life is a daring adventure or nothing at all" - helen keller
Man, you've got no structure... No groove at all for us to hang on to...
You are noodling aimlessly.
Just because you bend a few notes, doesn't mean its bluesy.
Your playing of the notes sounds fine. Now you just need a direction.
If you wanna come to blues land, you gotta learn the language. Pick the simplest blues song you enjoy, and learn it note for note. Singing and everything if it has vocals.
Watch Adam's lesson on 12 bar blues and/or try Rock n Blues Harmonica with the CD- a book by John Gindick (I'm sure there may be others or better, but those are my references for beginners).
10Bit, Its too major sounding. Took is right, learn the notes of the blues scale and learn all your standard blues riffs. John Gindick's material is what I used to learn the basics.
Agree with the recent assessments above. If you want to play the blues, you have to learn the language. You need to play to blues backing tracks, or on top of blues songs you like. You can't solo like that yet - because it is clear you don't have a feel for the blues rhythms, grooves, scales, changes, progressions. If you played a shuffle over a I-IV-V solo - it would be blues. But I'm betting you're not sure what that is yet. Get some blues jam tracks and learn to play with them, and LISTEN - LISTEN to LOTS of blues. ---------- *************************************************** /Greg
its hard finding anyone in my area since i just now moved here establishing cointacts at the moment but since i just started the whole music thing its going slow :/
i actually gave it another try and tried to mix it with some vocal work so it feels right tempo wise
I hope this is better? anyways protably my last post for now as its 3 am here^^
I am most definately going to listen to some more blues though cant see any reason not to
Not trying to be harsh. I listened to the first two videos, I can't decide which one is the farthest from the blues. Neither has any structure. If you guys at least learn standard blues riffs, it will give you something to build on. I'm talking about the up and down riff, good morning riff, 6 blow down, etc: There's a whole bunch of them and there easy to learn. And to repeat listen to a lot of blues and try to play along in the right key.
I didn't learn scales or notes until a couple years after I started learning harp. It was the standard riffs that helped me more than anything.
10BIT, if you can't find the standard blues riffs online, let me know I will send you some Jon Gindick literature that I learned from, no charge.
well i am mildly confused to be honest... i am unsure wether jInx is being sarcastic...
and i did not mean to offend you by any means took D: i was merely trying to offer my opinion about the subject and hoping for a different view on learning it
be harsh if you want its actually good for me as it might just motivate to get my lazy ass to work^^
You can use free online versions. You can get free apps. You can get one at a garage sale...
Without good time you won't really be able to play any type of music - especially blues.
May I suggest you find a free site that teaches basic music theory.- particularly note time values and time signatures. You aren't picking it up by feel. However you can learn it, then learn to feel it.
---------- Danny
Last Edited by KingoBad on Mar 16, 2015 10:25 AM
You should focus on developing your own rhythmic pocket. Stand up, rock back and forth, tap your foot, dance, let your body be the metronome. This might help you. http://ed.ted.com/lessons/a-different-way-to-visualize-rhythm-john-varney#w
Busking has proven to improve my playing most until now....."
After 6 months of learning how to play??? I admire individuals who will go in the public sphere and "put it out-there" for all to hear. However, at your current skill, I personally feel that public playing may actually hinder your playing, rather than improving it.
May reasoning? When an individual performs publicly, a player tends to rely much more on "muscle memory". You have(are) developing some bad habits/techniques thus far. We all do this on our progression from beginner to more advanced playing. Now is not the time to allow yourself this potential pitfalls by busking-out in public. It will further ingrain these bad habits. Just my 1 cent. :)
Ps. I did like the singing in the second video:)
Last Edited by CarlA on Mar 16, 2015 11:16 AM
Learn to hit the blue notes pre-bent rather than bending down to them. If you hit them pre-bent you can release the bend which allows you to resolve into the major chord tone which creates an emotional statement typical of the blues idiom.
10BIT. Little tip. The guys on this forum will bend over backwards to help anyone who wants to learn to play. You've come to the Worlds Finest Blues Harp Forum which has some of the worlds finest players who are happy to contribute and give you their time and good advice.
For each suggestion which was made to you, you simply came back with a negative reason why you shouldn't do it.
I think you should decide whether the Blues is really what you want to play or whether you just want to noodle aimlessly up and down the harp with no direction.
I don't give a toss what you want to do but I feel embarrassed that a relative newby to the forum doesn't realise exactly what experience and advice can be gained from the guys on here.
I came here as a complete novice and didn't know one end of the harp from the other, but I've learnt enough to know that I'm going to have a lifetime of fun and enjoyment ahead of me by playing and it's all thanks to the guys on here.
Learning to play any instrument will take Years not months.Learn that blues scale with correct pitches.Listen to the masters.Its okay to copy them at first.Remember the blues scale is 6 notes!There will be some repitition all the greats had fall back licks that they would work into new ones.Good Luck.
10bit. Get a 12-bar blues backing track and record yourself playing along to it. I don't think you can yet. And if you can't, you don't know the first thing about blues. I don't mean that harshly - but there is actually a blues language and if you want to play blues you need to learn it. The single most common dialect by far is the 12 bar blues form. You NEED to KNOW what that means (IF you want to play blues. If you just want to play a single note-at-a-time-melody like in these two videos then play whatever you want and let people judge it on its merits.) But from your OWN title on this thread and your OP you want to play more bluesy.
Post yourself playing a 12 bar blues here. Once we're convinced you can do that we might be more accepting of your going "out of the box". ---------- *************************************************** /Greg
The first two things you need to learn is the blues scale (in 2nd position) and the 12 bar blues progression. These are a must for playing blues. Here are Adams free videos which cover both.
Try starting that idea on 4 hole inhale (instead of 4 hole inhale bend/release).
Next, the descending part (which I call The Dismount) can be timed slightly different - explore these variations. ---------- The Iceman
Last Edited by The Iceman on Mar 17, 2015 6:06 AM
Assimilate from all the great players that's what they did.I`m sure they didn`t play scales too.Blues language, licks are words and after you learn the language you might get poetic...And call and response has a lot to do with blues style.I have been playing harp since 1968 and never played a scale.just talk the talk and walk the walk,sing a song!
You are exactly where I was after a year of playing. You need more "tools" in your tool box to expand your capabilities. I would suggest this: Learn some folk tunes and christmas carols. It teaches melody, structure and form. Play them with single notes and as you get comfortable with them, you can then work on tone, TBing, etc. I learned tunes like "Saints", "Swanee River", "Hark the Herald Angels Sing", etc. This will help you learn horn lines and harp riffs as you "build your vocabulary." You are just noodling, that's ok, but as you said, it is limiting you.
You're getting good advise here, except jinx. Forget what he says, he is being silly as he thinks it is cute to be clever, while staying just on this side of the forum rules. If I could block him, I would. He adds zero to the forum unless you like his boorish humor. Regrettably, comments like this just tickle him because he likes the attention. A classic troll. There, I said,
Last Edited by 6SN7 on Mar 17, 2015 7:06 AM
@Fil: I didn't write that; Richard Sleigh wrote it. ---------- "You can't just copy somebody. If you like someone's work, the important thing is to be exposed to everything that person has been exposed to."
"Assimilate from all the great players that's what they did.I`m sure they didn`t play scales too.Blues language, licks are words and after you learn the language you might get poetic...And call and response has a lot to do with blues style.I have been playing harp since 1968 and never played a scale.just talk the talk and walk the walk,sing a song!"
Nowmon: We are of the same era I inmagine-pre internet. I learned from listening to the greats live, playing/living with them. Never once did we do a technical rehearsal or talk of scales, metrodomes, or any of that stuff. They would at best call the key and stomp their foot for the tempo. It was up to the musicians backing them to figure it out. Today it is pretty much all disected. It works for many but I have no interest in learning that way. Discovery and imershing oneself in the laps of greats is my way of learning. Walter ---------- walter tore's spontobeat - a real one man band and over 1 million spontaneously created songs and growing. I record about 300 full length cds a year in the Tunnel of Dreams Studio. " life is a daring adventure or nothing at all" - helen keller
Personally, my learning style involves both understanding and feeling. However, I take Walter's point that it is possible and preferable to some to learn entirely by feel. If that is your bent, 10bit, I'd suggest that you learn to listen intently and then reproduce what you hear. Better yet, sing something, then learn to play what you just sang. For example, if blues is your goal, listen to great blues songs such as Trouble in Mind, Key to the Highway, etc. and learn to both sing and play them. That will set you on the right track to finding the right notes for blues. ----------
Last Edited by mr_so&so on Mar 17, 2015 10:21 AM
Walter, I respect you learned from your elders in the ways you did. I am the same age as you and back then, that was the best to learn, though many had to do with just recordings or live performances.
But your method doesn't work for most people. The "new" way might not interest you at all, I hope you are not dismissive of it. I think the internet and the advent of learning online has been a benefit and I bet more people today can play blues harp than "back in the day." Just think, you can reach more of an audience today with Spontobeat from the cushiness of your own garage studio. And Spontobeat for some might be their method of learning, not surprising.
I think it is a great a complete nubie can put a clip of their playing online and get a number of critiques and advise in 48 hours. And one of those people is Richard Sleigh. Gosh, in the old days, the guy who taught me to TB would have cuffed me if I started playing like a nubie. Not the effective way to learn.....and I don't miss that!
Last Edited by 6SN7 on Mar 17, 2015 10:30 AM
6SN7: I am not putting the new age internet method of learning down. I was driven to do music over everything else- children, career, stability. I literally lived it for 25 years all over the world. I know most people are not driven to it to this level and the internet makes it convienient. To me a live performance,in the flesh, not a video one, is the true mark of if someone has it or not. Sadly this is being killed off faster than one can count clubs going belly up. Also it took a long time to get anywhere in the music scene. Now the internet music scene is immediate and one gets to be "onstage" in as fast as it takes to upload a video. I find most videos boring and the sound quality terrible. I was spoiled living in the time I was. I am not intending to sound harsh or on an ego trip. It just was the way it was.
Pro's today have to give lessons, do seminars, sell books, and other such non gig things to survive and only a handful survive on music alone. Back in my day that was all there was because that is all you needed. If you hustled enough you could, as I did, play well over 200 dates a year around the world. I bet if I worked for 50 hours working on booking myself today I would be lucky to find a couple of gigs that didn't even cover my gas money. Such are the times. Like I said I am not against the net learning but will never get with it because to me it is a 1 dimensional experience. I need to be in the flesh and experience it live. Walter
PS: This is all the opinion of a guy that was raised old school. I say - Whatever works for you do it :)
---------- walter tore's spontobeat - a real one man band and over 1 million spontaneously created songs and growing. I record about 300 full length cds a year in the Tunnel of Dreams Studio. " life is a daring adventure or nothing at all" - helen keller
Baker, thanks for posting those old videos of mine.
10bit, if you want to play blues, you need SOME conception of blues tonality and you need SOME sense of what the 12-bar blues structure is. The former is more important than the latter. (You can play one-chord blues without knowing anything about chord changes.) Your second video is, as jinx says, better than your first. I think you've got some sense, deep in you, of what the blues are about; you're trying to "speak" blues in that second video, but you don't really have the language. Still, something's there.
I think you need to start with a beat. A shuffle blues beat; a dotted-eighth note beat. And a few choice notes. 4 draw, a bend on that, 3 draw, 2 draw, a 1234 blow chord. Maybe a 5 draw. Start simple and create a groove.
Waltertore is right to encourage creativity. With infants, for example, it's great to give them finger paints and let them muck around and throw stuff and make huge messes. That's where it all starts. But it's also important to respect the music and the discipline. Pianists, violinists, sax players: they all do this. Harmonica gives the illusion of barely needing a quick-start manual. That is indeed an illusion.
edited to add: the old-school method that Walter is describing is just fine, but only if three key things are going on: 1) you're paying very close and continued attention to the old-school player in whose presence you're sitting and soaking stuff up; 2) you spend a lot of time in the woodshed working out, on your own axe, the stuff that you've paid extremely close attention to when your master is playing it; and 3) you get a chance to groove, two guys in the same physical location, and repeatedly, at length, with the master you're apprenticed to, ideally by spending time on the bandstand with him, backing him up.
If you leave out any of those three steps, Walter's process doesn't work, at all. All three steps are required.
I went through all three steps, although I had two teachers. I lived step #1 and #2 with my harp teacher (and by myself); I spent hours and hours replaying and copying the licks that were on the tapes I made of his private lessons and street performances. I lived step #3 with my guitar man, patiently bringing on line and improving on the stuff I'd begun to master through the first two steps.
If that particular process isn't available to you--and it sounds as though it's not--then you need....well, Modern Blues Harmonica. :) But you also need other human beings, not just videos and tabs and recordings. Jam sessions can begin that process, but eventually you need to team up with a guitar man or band.
Last Edited by kudzurunner on Mar 17, 2015 11:40 AM
First of all, there is no such thing as "bluesy" playing. It either is blues or it isn't. If you want to play blues and be good at it, you'll need to listen to blues and you'll have to be passionate about it.
Start here. Do not buy a backing track. Buy Jimmy Reed recordings. You need to develop your ear and your sense of time. You can hear the beat. You can feel it. Tap your feet to it. Listen to the chord changes. Listen to how the groove fit the lyrics of the song. After listening to it a few times, pick up a harmonica. Try to figure out what he is playing and mimic it.
Noodling around and trying to play "bluesy" won't get you anywhere. When you do feel comfortable to play in public, you might get labeled a wanker. Nobody wants that label. ---------- The Blues Photo Gallery
I've decide to delete my post with Richard Sleigh's thoughts on blues. I shouldn't have posted Richard's piece without checking with him and doing so seems to have confused some readers.
Richard regularly writes thought-provoking pieces on music. You can sign up for them on his website, http://rsleigh.com. ---------- "You can't just copy somebody. If you like someone's work, the important thing is to be exposed to everything that person has been exposed to."
Last Edited by timeistight on Mar 18, 2015 6:41 AM
I’m hesitant to write something here, having played only 6 months, however there’s a chance that some thoughts from new guy to new guy might be of some help.
In other words . . I know how little I know, which is exactly why I think this could help you out in your quest. If I say anything idiotic here, I hope the pros on the site will correct me.
The approach that is helping me progress (slowly . . . as achieving proficiency in most anything is an incremental endeavor) kind of goes like this.
1: Seek out help, either free or via the tons of videos/advice that are available at minimal charge. I’m currently using learning materials from Adam here at MBH, Ronnie Shellist, and Jon Gindick. All these lessons and exercises are helping me better understand timing, rhythm, the 12-bar structure, bending and other blues essentials. I also have opened my ears, listening for harp in everything from old blues recordings to TV commercials.
2: Practice is beyond crucial, but it helps if you enjoy the practice. I mean, I get a bit of a rush when I can feel/hear a bend done correctly, or play a simple tune that sounds like something more than a honking duck. My daily regimen averagez about 2 to 3 hours . . . presently working mostly on bends (via Adam’s bending lessons) beginning riffs (from Ronnie Shellist) and simple songs written in second position (from Jon Gindick).
This two or three hours is not all at one shot. It’s broken up through the entire day and evening (we all have other stuff to do). Maybe 5 minutes here, maybe 30 there, maybe just a few riffs here and there. I repeat stuff, and repeat, and repeat, until these things are in memory. I then try and add my own small variations.
3; Play slow in the beginning. I believe speed and tone come with time and practice (again, to all you pros here . . . please correct me if I’m wrong. Not seeking to throw out wrong advice here). I started off trying to play too fast, which leads to mistakes, which leads to ingraining those mistakes..
I was going to stop this at 3 things that are working for me . . . but feel I must a add a fourth. You really have to want to play blues; you have to feel a need for it . . . that it somehow speaks to something inside you.
I’m just starting at 55 years old . . . but if it’s something you want and feel, age doesn’t matter. Just have fun and go for it . . . but realize there is no quick fix, nothing that will allow you to play like a pro in a period of days or weeks. Learning and progressing is the long game . . . and maybe a game that never really ends.
