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Dirty-South Blues Harp forum: wail on! > How to back a singer/guitar-player?
How to back a singer/guitar-player?
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Martin
776 posts
Feb 18, 2015
9:13 AM
This is not a beginner´s "How to-tread", but an attempt at eliciting some reactions of a -musical- nature.

Every now and then I download a track from Youtube and try to add some harmonica to it. It interests me how to go about in these endavours, and I hope some of you guys would follow me and take a stab at it. (The track is easily found on YT: R.L. Burnside: "Wish I was in heaven sitting down.")

Since this is a blues forum I used a blues, just guitar and voice -- no soloing.
I find this surprisingly hard. Like most people I tend to play too much. Restraining yourself but still adding something -- this is the singer/guitar-players show: I´m backing -- to such an idiosyncratic guy like Burnside is
something of a ... "challenge" (hate the word) and I canned several versions before settling on this one. But please note, it´s full of mistakes and whatnot, and this is an example more pertaining to attitude/approach than perfection. I´m not interested in editing/polishing.

Perhaps ideally, the harmonica here should be just a dark drone, barely audible but filling out the bottom space? No doubt I´m too loud at times and too active.
On the other hand, someone lika Adam Gussow would probably approach it in an entirely different manner, with continous riffing.
Norton Buffalo and Roy Rogers did this one on their first duo CD -- very differently (not on YT), and I´m not sure I´m that fond of it.
But I´d love to hear other approaches!

https://soundcloud.com/martin-oldsberg/rl-burnside-wish-i-was-in-heaven-added-harmonicamp3
Martin
777 posts
Feb 18, 2015
9:17 AM
Hm, link not working. Of course.
New attempt:
Goldbrick
864 posts
Feb 18, 2015
9:44 AM
I like what you did here. Burnside has that funky timing thing going on so it requires concentration.

IMO the drone is the right approach and since Burnside is a guy who repeats his licks often- you can repeat too.

Big thing for me is not getting hung out to dry when his riff ends and you are playing with it if that makes sense.

Great tune and I like your tone
Martin
778 posts
Feb 18, 2015
4:05 PM
Thank you Goldbrick.
Yes, he has some funky timing going on, which I confess I fail to follow at times.

I said mistakenly above that Rogers & Buffalo´s version was not on YT -- but it is. More of a "major" feel than Burnside, and a much more active harmonica:
BronzeWailer
1605 posts
Feb 18, 2015
6:21 PM
I liked what you did Martin. I think mournful droney bits are the right approach. I liked when you doubled the vocal/guitar lines. I think that is effective.

Too tricky for me to follow Burnside's timing. This may not be what you are after, but I have been workshopping a solo version. As below. Far from perfect, but this is all I've got.

Well I clicked on it and couldn't play it. Will probably have to try another format. Grrr.

OK. Here is a YouTube version.






BronzeWailer's YouTube

Last Edited by BronzeWailer on Feb 18, 2015 7:23 PM
Martin
779 posts
Feb 19, 2015
6:10 AM
Many thanks, Bronzewailer.

A bold statement that you get away with just fine -- and I wish I was in heaven sittin´down and would dare to do the same thing. But no: can´t sing a note. (Do I detect an Aussie dialect there?)

Yuo loose the foot-tapping at a certain point -- was that intentional?

Appreciate the input!
barbequebob
2841 posts
Feb 19, 2015
10:32 AM
@Martin -- What you just learned right off the bat that no one size fits all and you got a lesson in musical humility for harp players, but even more important, along with one size does NOT fit all, that just because simple seems simple can be far more difficult than you think, especially when you have to play much more restrained, VERY understated, and that you're NOT the show and the most important thing here are the vocals.

Country blues stuff like what Burnside is doing, was something that Muddy Waters explained in an interview many years ago about playing alongside guys like a Lightnin' Hopkins or a John Lee Hooker and I quote, "If he don't change, I don't change....them old cats changed whenever they felt like it." I've found that to be 100% dead on the money true having gigged behind players like that myself and if you're kinda on a musical version of "automatic pilot," you can quickly find yourself with your musical pants down and if you're the the type of player who had a tendency to overplay even in the slightest, you ARE going to get embarrassed in a hurry and guys who have the tendency to play a lot of notes are too often dissing stuff they consider easy, but whenever they're in such situations like this or in any genre where the vocals are 100% front and center and soloing far down the bottom of the list, playing understated and restrained is often going to be an enormous chore for them they they will guaranteed to really suck at in a NY minute.

In this, I would've avoid the heavily amplified sound and go 100% acoustic harp with this stuff (and that means NO microphone in your hands and NO tight cupping of the mike at all and shaping the sound ONLY with your hands, the REAL acoustic harp) would've suited it even more, plus the sound balance of the harp should be much MORE in the background that what was on the recording.

Even so, go into some early Muddy Waters recordings, and one in particular, She's All Right, which has a very distinct country blues thing happening and listen to what's going on around it and having to learn to do stuff like this when I started out helped me out a lot and here's the tune itself:



Now this is essentially country blues fitted into a band setting and Muddy has done this on a number of occasions rather than a strict 12 bar blues.

There are times when the ONLY thing that you should play is maybe a long held out note or maybe just mirror the vocals. Now even tho there are tons of Bob Dylan bashers everywhere, including on this forum, what makes what he does right for his music is that the song writing and vocals are front and center and the single MOST IMPORTANT thing and solos and musical virtuosity is THE LEAST IMPORTANT aspect of the music and often times what he does is essentially mirror the vocal melody.

What you got a chance to learn is something you will have little chance of learning in 95% of the open jams anywhere in the world and a first step in learning to not just being the same stereotypical harp player who just can't shut up, but on your way to learning what true musicianship is all about and that means when necessary, hold back the flash and learn how to be a good sideman and properly support what's happening, something too often you never really learn in an open jam.
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Sincerely,
Barbeque Bob Maglinte
Boston, MA
http://www.barbequebob.com
CD available at http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/bbmaglinte
The Iceman
2297 posts
Feb 19, 2015
12:54 PM
Learn to play silence actively as if it were a note rather than a pause before playing again.

Over time, learn to play more of these silent notes.

Eventually, you may find that you play silent notes 60% of the time and have become a great sideman as well as a very effective soloist.
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The Iceman
BronzeWailer
1609 posts
Feb 19, 2015
2:52 PM
@Martin. Thanks for stimulating me to put it out there. I did stop the foot partway through. I thought I could keep the groove with my body. Yes, a bit of Aussie in there. I was born in Canada but hung out mainly with Aussies the last 30 years, and lived here for 25. When I go back to Canada they think I am Aussie. Here they think I am from somewhere indeterminate. When I make them guess they usually guess American, Canadian or Irish. And occasionally something more exotic (my mum's from the Caribbean).

BronzeWailer's YouTube
Goldbrick
870 posts
Feb 19, 2015
2:54 PM
@iceman
Good advice.
Martin
781 posts
Feb 19, 2015
5:09 PM
@ Barbecuebob: Good advice all over and I agree on all points, except one.
If I made myself out as some sort of beginner it was involuntarily -- and then I´m sounding even MORE awful than I think I do. Ugh. But I´m an old dog and I´ve been around a while, backing various types of guys, both duo and other contexts, both blues and other stuff.

I would say that if I found myself in a situation with a someone like Burnside, the visual aspect would hopefully contribute just a little: you´d simply be able to see a bit of what he was up to. Although he´s fairly regular in his changes here I think I´ve heard other instances where he´s more free. (I actually heard him live with harmonica backing, + drums and bass, several years ago -- but found that rather disappointing.)

Yes, as I said above, the harp should be way more back in the mix, I´m too loud and too active -- you´re entirely right.
Where I don´t agree, however, is the amplification business: harmonica should always be played into an EQ´d microphone. The amount of dirt can vary, but the instrument needs to get down in shrillness.
That´s my firm belief; and we could call that a personal preference or aesthetic choice in terms of sound. A bit like me favouring grey and/or black jackets and ties.
Consequently, I like my harmonica dark.
Thanks for the input.
JInx
977 posts
Feb 19, 2015
9:56 PM

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