Michael Rubin
1016 posts
Feb 04, 2015
3:10 PM
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It has come to my attention that inhaling through the nose while playing a draw note will seriously impede one's ability to sustain that note for very long.
I have a student who cannot seem to shut off his nose from inhaling. When he holds his nose with his fingers he can sustain a draw note for a very long time.
How can you intentionally shut off the nose inhalation?
Thanks.
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tf10music
229 posts
Feb 04, 2015
3:23 PM
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just tried it now (although to be honest it seems to me to be intuitive to just push and pull all of the air through your mouth if you're playing an instrument that is powered by blowing/drawing). For me, the closest analogy for focusing on not inhaling through your nose is to breathe like you would if you had a bad cold.
Hopefully that proves to be a useful way of looking at it.
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Philosofy
655 posts
Feb 04, 2015
3:34 PM
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I've found that breathing like something really stinks in the room helps. Something else he can try is drinking a milkshake through a straw.
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WinslowYerxa
774 posts
Feb 04, 2015
6:06 PM
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Can your student blow up a balloon (why am I giving away all my little techniques?)? You can't do that with air leaking through your nose. Get that going on the inhale, and then on the exhale.
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Winslow
Check out my blog and other goodies at winslowyerxa.com
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Harmlessonica
55 posts
Feb 05, 2015
12:53 AM
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This is something which we can all do, but normally it's involuntary; if a student is asked to do it on command they might focus on trying to consciously move those internal muscles, and fail in doing so.
As well as the tips above (why did I even bother to buy the Dummies book? :) ) ask your student to visualise and focus on the airstream going through the harmonica, as though it was a liquid. This might help them to relax and the correct muscles will come into action naturally.
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nowmon
10 posts
Feb 05, 2015
3:59 AM
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It would be good to get into breathing exercises you could go all the way too circular breathing.Rahssan Roland Kirk could keep a note going for minutes and get overtones jumping out in beats,then go into a fantastic blues run.the far end of breathing...
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WinslowYerxa
775 posts
Feb 06, 2015
9:10 AM
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Rahsaan was using circular breathing, where you use the small amount of air in your mouth to keep the note going while tyou inhale through your nose. Harmonica players don't seem to do this much; possibly because it's harder to keep a note going where the reed doesn't push back like it does on a saxophone.
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Winslow
Check out my blog and other goodies at winslowyerxa.com
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laurent2015
714 posts
Feb 06, 2015
10:22 AM
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When you slowly pronounce the letter "D", , you feel the throat gets automatically closed and you should keep that throat position when playing. Easy to claim: I'm not comfortable to play with closed throat, I have to force myself.
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WinslowYerxa
776 posts
Feb 06, 2015
10:52 AM
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Letter D is not foolproof. Try repeating Needy, Needy, Needy, running the words together. Your nose will stay open to make the "N" sound even while you make the "D" sound. Lots of folks speak nasally by default and will not close their nasal passages to make the D sound even when not using N sounds.
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Winslow
Check out my blog and other goodies at winslowyerxa.com
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Last Edited by WinslowYerxa on Feb 06, 2015 10:53 AM
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Kingley
3835 posts
Feb 06, 2015
11:04 AM
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Just tell him to practice breathing through his mouth only. Try it first without a harmonica, then with one. It isn't that hard to do surely. Or maybe I'm missing something?
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Kaining
78 posts
Feb 06, 2015
2:25 PM
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Ask him to put his head under water for the longuest he can without holding his noze with his finger.
It's not about breathing by the mouth, it's about not breathing at all first.
Best way to make somewone do that in my books is to try to drown him.
Everybody i know gasp for air with their mouth and completly forget to breath by the noze after trying apnea.
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laurent2015
715 posts
Feb 07, 2015
8:45 PM
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Winslow: I tried what you describe and you're right.
However: when you pronounce "D" and only "D" you get the position that closes that part of the throat in touch with the nose channel; beeing conscious that those muscles exist is the first step. What you explain is actually the problem I have: I cannot keep that channel closed, but it's only a lack of training I think.
Anyway: there's a huge difference in playing when I force myself...this makes no doubts.
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Pistolcat
758 posts
Feb 08, 2015
2:12 AM
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I'm with Kingley. Tell him to breath just through his mouth. No harmonica. It's a basic motor skill. If he's absoloutly unable to learn; how is his speech? A cleft palate will make harmonica playing kinda hard, I guess. Or maybe not. Anyone here with a cleft palate?
... and tell him to keep at it. It'll come...
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Last Edited by Pistolcat on Feb 08, 2015 4:31 AM
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jbone
1878 posts
Feb 08, 2015
10:37 AM
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I don't know why there is a problem unless one's throat/back of mouth/nasal passage is different than mine. Am I the only one who can close my nasal passage off from the back of my mouth here? I thought this was a normal part of the body and that it serves to let one breathe just through the mouth for various reasons.
It may seem foreign to consciously work on this ability but it's very important to playing harp well. I have always done this since day one!
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WinslowYerxa
777 posts
Feb 08, 2015
11:44 AM
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Folks who assume that closing off the nasal passages is a normal part of body function simply haven't taught enough harmonica to encounter the significant portion of the student population who have trouble with this when they attempt to play the harmonica. It simply isn't helpful to say, "Gee, it's normal, everyone should be able to do it - what's the big problem?"
I've experimented with some of the methods recommended and I've found that the balloon exercise is the one that works best.
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Winslow
Check out my blog and other goodies at winslowyerxa.com
Harmonica For Dummies, Second Edition with tons of new stuff
Deepen your playing at the Harmonica Collective
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Gnarly
1235 posts
Feb 09, 2015
7:49 AM
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I was diagnosed with sleep apnea and have been using a CPAP machine for several months (6+).
It's pretty interesting to open and close your soft palate with air being forced thru a tube into your nose.
BTW, I play with an open nose a fair amount--when I speak, my nose is usually open.
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The Iceman
2284 posts
Feb 09, 2015
7:58 AM
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Control is a voluntary muscle one. Challenge is to go inside your head and learn which one to engage. Once found, one may wonder why it was so hard to do in the first place.
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The Iceman
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blueswannabe
541 posts
Feb 10, 2015
11:20 AM
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I have a deviated septum, and can only beathe out of one nostril. I always thought that this was a hindrance to harmonica playing. Notwithstanding, it still comes down to muscle memory and control.
Vibrato was difficult at first becuase it's unusual. But eventually, you learn it. I think it's the same thing here.
Last Edited by blueswannabe on Feb 10, 2015 11:22 AM
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jbone
1879 posts
Feb 10, 2015
7:13 PM
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I didn't mean to be insensitive, it's something I have taken for granted. My attempts at teaching harmonica have not gone well but have at least served to show me some things I have needed to pay more attention to!
Like wannabe, in recent years as I've aged i have been told by my doc I have a deviated septum. She also downplayed its significance and in fact I notice no change with speaking, breathing, singing, or harp playing.
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