Harp Study
68 posts
Jan 27, 2015
6:47 PM
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I was hoping someone on here might be able to help me out. I have recently been tweaking the reed profile and gaps, using Richard Sleighs hot rod harmonica video, on some of my harps.
I have been pleased with the results for the most part, but I have a "D" harp which plays great with one exception. For some reason the 3 draw half step bend has very little room between the natural note and the hole step bend. When I perform what should be a 3 draw half step bend it goes to the full step bend instead. I can deliberately get the 1/2 step bend, but it is difficult and there isn't much room between the natural note and the hole step bend.
I didn't know if anyone has ran into this before. Any help would be appreciated.
Thanks in advance.
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SuperBee
2373 posts
Jan 27, 2015
7:29 PM
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hmm...that sounds like most of my D harps. i'm not sure it doesnt sound like all my D harps. maybe youve just made the bend so easy to get and youre still expecting to have to brutalise it for a response...
or maybe not. i think i'll shut up and wait for a comment from someone who knows what they're talking about
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the_happy_honker
205 posts
Jan 27, 2015
11:25 PM
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Assuming the 3 draw gapping is OK, look at the gapping of the 3 blow. The closer the gapping, the more responsive the hole is, that is, the more sensitive the draw bend is to changes in embouchure.
Also, the gapping of the 3 blow influences the embouchure required to make a particular bend. The embouchure you usually use to make a half step bend may now be closer to the one that produces a whole step bend, akin to the difference in embouchure between a half step bend on an A harp and an E harp, for example.
If the gapping of the blow reed looks reasonable, then it is probably just a case of getting used to a new situation.
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MindTheGap
516 posts
Jan 27, 2015
11:39 PM
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Harp Study - At last! Someone discussing this thing.
So, when I was in my experimenting phase - buying and trying various makes and models to learn what's what - I was vexed by this thing. That as the harp key when up, the 3 draw bends seem to get more tricky to control, relative to the other hole draw bends. That, just as you say, the 'space' between 3 and 3'' is surprisingly small. And to play music, you have to fit the natural, blue 3rd and minor 3rd into that little space!
I wrote about this already in the Lee Oskar thread, so in summary:
- My SP20 and harpmasters had this feature.
- Tweaking didn't make much difference, the choice was between airy-but-forgiving, and tight-but-tricky.
- Radical reed profile, gapping, sanding experiments didn't help much, and the final, optimum position was the same: tight-but-tricky.
- I had the opportunity to try a high-end custom D harp, and it wasn't much different.
- I concluded that this is how it is, stopped worrying about it, and got down to practising. This was a happy conclusion. I listened to many recordings and you can hear how the 3 bends require special finesse and treatments, especially on higher keys.
- More recently, I bought a D Lee Oskar (not with this in mind) and surprise, the 3D bends were much easier to control. I don't have the custom harp to compare with side-by-side, so I can't comment on how similar they are. It's not a million times easier, but easier. Specifically, it's not very tight but it's not leaky/airy either. People say that it's a lucky one, and I can't argue with that as I've not had enough experience.
Just to say, all the harps did actually work in that I can get all the 3D bends, so this may be different to your situation.
My conclusion is still that this is a 'gravity issue' - it's just how it is.
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MindTheGap
517 posts
Jan 28, 2015
12:22 AM
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Thinking about this reminded me of when I first was learning to bend. Staring at those charts of 'available notes' gave the impression that someone had designed them in, like a saxophone or a flute with devices here and there to make particular notes easier to get.
But of course they are just a strange side-effect, and no one has designed in anything to make them easier. After getting bends like the simpler 4' an 2'' and then trying to get the so-called available notes on the 3D - are you kidding???
And then I saw an overblow chart with a great string of 'available upward bends' on the 6OB. Yes I see.
Last Edited by MindTheGap on Jan 28, 2015 12:24 AM
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Harp Study
69 posts
Jan 28, 2015
6:55 PM
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Thanks everyone. This particular harp is worse then just a typical high key harp. I agree the bends are usually tighter on a higher key, but I've got an Eb and an F that has a wider range on the 3 draw half step then this D does.
I will try opening up the 3 blow reed some more and see if that helps. If not I guess I just got to get used to it.
Thanks again everyone.
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arzajac
1574 posts
Jan 29, 2015
5:34 AM
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Maybe it's the harp, maybe it's technique, I'm not sure - it's difficult to tell just by the description.
The 3 hole is probably the most important hole to set up since those soulful draw bends are an important part of the low-end, no matter what scale or position you play.
I think there is only so much you can expect from gapping alone. When I hear that regular notes play fine but only some of the bends play, I tend to believe the reed shape of both reeds can be improved. Both blow and draw reeds are involved in the three draw bends. It's a lot easier to set up the three hole for those lower semitone bends than that fist semitone.
When doing the reed work, maybe focus on getting the first semitone bend to come it will the least effort possible. Then work on getting the other (straight and bent) notes to play well.
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Custom overblow harps. Harmonica service and repair.
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MindTheGap
521 posts
Jan 29, 2015
6:40 AM
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arzajac - I just wish there some rules of thumb around profiles to help with this 3D in particular. I guess when you've done tens and hundreds you get to know. I've got the most benefit from your concept of 'everything dipping through the slot at the same time', even though I may not be interpreting that correctly. At least it's something concrete to aim at.
Last Edited by MindTheGap on Jan 29, 2015 6:40 AM
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arzajac
1575 posts
Jan 29, 2015
7:18 AM
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Using a visual cue has the advantage of being pretty objective and reproducible. The dissadvantage is that the visual cue will not always tell the whole story in how the reed needs to be shaped. There's more to it that that.
I play the reed off the comb and see how it responds. I plink the reed and pay attention to the timbre. You also need to adjust how both reeds interact with each other.
I wish there was a recipe I could spell out to tell you how to get the result you are looking for. But there isn't. Just a genereal idea of how to proceed and what to look for.
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Custom overblow harps. Harmonica service and repair.
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Harp Study
70 posts
Jan 29, 2015
9:45 AM
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Thanks Andrew. I will try working on the profile and gap again and see if it gets any better. Your help is always greatly appreciated.
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