I played a gig last night and did not use any slide harmonicas, but was still well received--I think I got more attention from my kit of 40 harmonicas than anything else. They liked the mandolin too. Hey, go with what you like--despite what you may have heard, playing harmonica is not the thing that will make you popular, why not please yourself.
@arnenym Go back to Winslow's 748'th post and listen to Blue Chrom. If you don't like the way that sounds then you are right you don't like the Chrom. I play the chrom and I'm not a fan of the accordion sound either. Not all chroms are created equal nor are chrom players! Oh and Winslow that was very nice!!
Last Edited by chromaticblues on Jan 13, 2015 9:35 AM
Came to this discussion a little late, but find it very interesting. Many of these points are very revealing. I especially appreciate the video and audio postings of chromatic players playing the blues.
I agree that both the diatonic and chromatic have their own advantages when expressing the blues. And hope to hear more contributions from chromatic players.
To illustrate the unique sound from each instrument, I am posting a harmonica solo that is back to back 12 bars of diatonic blues harp, then 12 bars of chromatic harmonica. Original blues tune written by Mark Crissinger, performed by Marty Howe : Note: solo starts at around 2:20
I enjoy the chromatic harmonica. While watching TV I can pick it up and play along with the music. It's fun when watching movies; I like playing the theme music from films like "Lawrence of Arabia".
Man, I love the Chromatic especially in the Piazza/Clarke octave west coast style but Mitch Kashmar plays it great in the west coast stlye but also playing a lot of single notes. That Winslow "Blue Chrom" is pretty awesome though! Also, for a lot of folk starting the Chrom is like starting all over again with a different instrument and really not playing hard ect. as I said I love it, it's big and fat!
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"Those British boys want to play the blues real bad, and they do"
Last Edited by marine1896 on Jul 13, 2015 5:20 AM
What is important to a youngster picking an instrume
Does it look cool ? Is it played by your " heros" ? Do chix or dudes dig it ? Is it easy to play ? Can you easily find a teacher ? Do you fit in with lots of bands ?
ha ha my other half heard me playing chrom one time and she said 'that is the sound of you in 20 years'...i will be over 70 in 20 years...what she means is my chrom playing lacks vitality... but thats MY playing. compare sonny boy 2 to toots...to my mind not a really meaningful comparison. compare sonny boy to George Smith may be more pertinent. Compare Bill Galison to Christelle Berthon et al...there are some wonderful diatonic players attempting to play jazz and other chromatic approaches ... and we (I) marvel at the control they manage to get in overcoming the limitations of the diatonic...but usually i wince at some point...but i often feel that way about the harmonica anyway...i heard a favourite player of mine play the head of a song, and when he went into a solo i was spun out at his great inventive playing...but when the guitarist took a turn it seemed the real gift of harmonica to a band may be that things seem so much better when it stops..such a relief to hear the beautiful music of the guitar after the harp...and this player was great, with much better tone and expressive technique than most. i agree chromatic is less popular because its somewhat harder to pick up. doesnt mean the instrument is less worthy than a diatonic though IMHO
I agree with Winslow 100% on that. Each have their own voice and advantages.
There are efforts to merge the advantages of each instrument into one. Brendan Power has been working on the X-Reed Chromatic, stating: "It brings together the best elements from two hitherto divided camps, those of the blues harp and the chromatic harmonica. For decades players have generally been on one side or the other, with often a big gulf in between. Now that division is blown away in the X-Reed Chromatic.
This one amazing new harmonica marries the wailing sound of the blues harp with the easy full chromaticism of the slider chromatic! It is incredibly expressive, because virtually every note can be played as a bend or as a normally played reed. It offers tons of new soulful expression to traditional chromatic players, and gives diatonic harp players their familiar bluesy tone plus all the chromatic notes built in with a slider. I can’t wait to hear the fabulous new music that will be played on the X-Reed Chromatic in the near future."
However, Brendan also states that its a work in progress and that "But I'm still not satisfied, and am currently working on an even smaller Mk3 model - so watch this space!"
I am also interested in the TurboSlide with PowerBending tuning, which may bring more chromatic and melodic possibilities to the blues harp, but I haven't tried that harp. I posted a discussion on the forum asking for users experience and have had some interesting posts so far, but most seem to use it for an effect rather than expanding chromatic possibilities on the blues harp.
The X-Reed Chromatic is a part of the Twin Harmonica system, whereby Brendan joins two slide instruments with a single mouthpiece. I want one to join the SSCH chord harmonica with a 14 hole chromatic. However, as per the original topic, it will not make chromatic more popular, at least until a person knows how to play it. I think chromatic is unpopular, if you can call it that, due to its cost and complexity. There are quite a few folks who can play diatonic and chrom in a manner that will have you scratching your head to determine which one they are playing--Brendan is one . . . Marty is another. I know that they are not the same, I play them both--but most people don't know the difference. If a diatonic player wants to play chromatically, sometime a chromatic harmonica is the right choice. And it's not really hard to fathom, holes 5-9 are the same as holes 4-7 on a diatonic if you are playing in the home key. It's when you try to go to the other keys that the complexity rears its head. But some keys are fine--cross harp is pretty cool on a chromatic.
Last Edited by Gnarly on Jul 15, 2015 8:32 AM
10 hole chroms are usually Richter, so the tuning is exactly the same as you are used to. And it is chromatic--there are only a couple of missing notes, F# on hole 2 and A and Bb on hole 3. If the harp is airtight, you should be able to get the F# on hole 2 and the notes on hole 3 by draw bending--you might need to half valve tho--if the harp has no valves, all bets are off!
Last Edited by Gnarly on Jul 15, 2015 10:02 AM
There are fewer chromatic players than diatonic players. For diatonic players, chromatics cost more and require learning new patterns.
Chromatic harmonica is often played in genres of music that do not have widespread fan bases. Chromatic is seldom used in roots based music. It is seldom found in music that is not jazz or standards, except when played on 3rd position blues or when Stevie Wonder plays. David Naditch is bringing excellent chromatic to bluegrass and gypsy jazz, which I think is great, but like blues, bluegrass and gypsy jazz have limited fan bases.
When chromatic is heard being played well in more popular music genres it is usually appreciated, but not always recognized for what it is.
When I attend our weekly local Hootenanny (acoustic instruments only) there is a positive response to diatonic harmonica AND to chromatic. In that setting I usually play diatonic on most songs, but I frequently play chromatic in 1st when accompanying '20s and '30s blues players, or 3rd or 4th for minor songs. For many who attend the Hootenanny it is the only place they hear chromatic played, and I receive a very positive response.
At SPAH there is great concern about the diminishing interest in chromatic playing as well as chord and bass harmonica playing. I think it is mainly an issue of lack of public interest in the genres of music in which those instruments are featured.
I enjoy playing both diatonic and chromatic harmonica. I use keyed chromatics, since learning a few positions/keys lets me play in any key by switching chromatics. It is a diatonic player's approach to chromatic. ----------
SOME 10-hole chromatics are tuned like diatonics (such as the Hohner Koch 980 and Slide Harp, both now out of production) while others, such as the Hohner 260 (also gone) and the Chrometta 10, are solo tuned (i.e., like a regular chromatic). =========== Winslow
Chromatics are also used in Irish music. Eddie Clarke was the first to really explore this extensively, using flat-slide technique (playing in a key with the slide in, so that he could dip it out and back in again to play grace notes a semitone below a scale note), and later Brendan Power brought his chromatic approach to the music. I've also used it for Scottish and French Canadian music.
And of course for classical playing, chromatic is standard; diatonic is unusual.
But as, dougharps points out. these are all styles with smaller fanbases that Country or Rock. (Not sure that blues really has all that big a fan base, either, but harmonica playing has a strong home in the blues, and blues has a direct and well-publicized connection to the more popular country and rock styles.) =========== Winslow
No one can say this is lame I mean forget Chromatic's in other musical genres but Clarke,delay and Piazza stamped on the whole blues chromatic long ago!!!
Nuff said....
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"Those British boys want to play the blues real bad, and they do"
I added octaves on diatonic later, after I learned chromatic harmonica octaves. On diatonic it does take some adjustment on the upper octaves on draw notes, but octaves on blow notes are not a problem due to the CEG layout of blow notes on diatonic. Octaves at the bottom end of a diatonic are easy and good for comping.
But as Gnarly implies, on chromatic harmonica octaves are consistent in width on all of the harp. ----------
I myself am thinking of trying the chromatic because I want to play classical music like Mozart etc., It is daunting because of the choices and the price. I have thought about giving the cx12 black chromatic from Hohner a try but have heard that 14 or 16 hole chromatics are best suited for the kind of classical music I want to try, Just not really sure which one I should go with at this point
I use chromatic harp on quite a few songs with my band and I love the sound! Mostly I use it for songs in the key of D, ( C chromatic ). I love amplified chromatic!
I think it depends on the genre of music. I regularly listen to 2 radio stations: one is jazz and the other is blues. On the jazz station, chromatics are pretty common - used in maybe every 20th song, on average. But diatonic is rare. On the blues station, maybe 3-5 out of 10 songs have bluesharp, but chrome is rare.
I like them both - but they each have their place. In the world of jazz, the chromatic is not "unpopular", but it's certainly less common than a trumpet or saxophone.
I am a diatonic player. I'm intrigued by the chrome and saving up for my first one - either a Suzuki SCX-56 or a Seydel Deluxe. I recognize it is a different instrument, and will require significant time investment to learn.
I'm not a fan of the chrome vs. diatonic arguments. I like to ski and snowboard - both are great sports, one is not better than the other.
Its good to hear from guys like Winslow, Gnarly, etc. who share exerience and knowledge of both instruments.
Last Edited by A440 on Jul 18, 2015 11:00 AM
It's a matter of taste. When I was buying jazz records it happend that I really enjoyed all the tracks, except when a harmonica came into the mix. I soon found out that every time Toots Thielemann is listed on the record this is a track I will not like. I do not like the sound of the chrom and I almost never like the way a chrom is played. To my ears the sound is boring and / or and I get nerved. There is no "rock'n roll" in my ears -- including all the examples you posted above.
I can understand that for some people a harmonica is a harmonica regardless if it's a diatonic or a chrom, but for me I only like the sound, the feeling of the diatonic. I have heard one clip from Filip Jers were I liked the playing / song with a chrom.
BTW, a half valved diatonic is very much like a chrom and looses that special sound.
Last not least, chrom is mostly played single-line without chords, which in my ears also contributes very much to the unique diatonic sound when you use chords "to the full" or just let some side notes in for a moment to colour the sound and other technics like bending to the target note.
But what I am missing is a band playing Jazz / Jazzrock / Progressive Rock where a diatonic plays a vital role. A while ago I asked for pointers in the harp-l to interesting records in this regard. I learned about the Sky King record (which I really love, ). But I would enjoy to find more jazz rock / progressive rock recordings with a diatonic :-)
Peter
Last Edited by rpnfan on Jul 22, 2015 10:18 AM
But I must admit that Bela Flack is not my kind of music. I like many diatonic players, but not all and so far I have not been touched by Howard Levys playing. Just not my cup of tea I guess... :-o
I really dig Lee Sankeys playing with banjo player Dan Walsh:
But back to chromatic playing. I do not know why, but even when I normally do not like chromatic harmonica at all I am touched by the playing of Filip Jers. One example is here:
