CapitalG
37 posts
Jan 01, 2015
12:24 PM
|
Hi Mooncat,
I'd be very grateful if you could consider doing a video on3rd position specifically on swing with a major feel. I'm developing my 3rd position skills at the mo and trying to to apply it to swing in 12 bar and related swing chord progressions.
again much appreciated if you get the chance
Cheers big ears,
G
|
Thievin' Heathen
452 posts
Jan 01, 2015
1:47 PM
|
"How much are you willing to pay?" would not be an inappropriate response.
But don't be discouraged. After you have mastered all the free lessons Mooncat has posted to youtube, your third position swing licks will probably be epidemic.
|
CapitalG
38 posts
Jan 01, 2015
2:56 PM
|
I'm just asking and will leave it up to mooncats discretion . I understand he is a busy man and a professional musician and his time is valuable. If anyone would like to add to the subject that would be great
|
Destin
97 posts
Jan 01, 2015
3:26 PM
|
I think I dig what capitalG is asking . Third position playing when there is a lot of use of the major third kinda. Playing a juke style tune in third.
This would be a good lesson
|
CapitalG
39 posts
Jan 01, 2015
4:33 PM
|
Yup,
Swing with a major feel in 3rd. Jason's perspective as an overblow player would be good.
I've been studying Kim Wilsons approach and listening closely to Dennis Gruenlings ideas too. All great stuff
G
|
Kingley
3799 posts
Jan 02, 2015
3:24 AM
|
Destin - Buy the Mark Hummel tuitional DVD. In it he teaches a lot of very good stuff. Including how to play Juke in 1st, 2nd and 3rd position. Other than that searching Google will bring up a lot of information on playing in 3rd.
|
Greg Heumann
2929 posts
Jan 03, 2015
1:06 PM
|
Just curious - Why would you want to play 3rd position for a tune with a major feel? You might have a perfectly valid reason but generally one chooses a position to provide the greatest range of notes that work with the tune in question. 3rd position generally works better with minor blues. 1st, 2nd work better with major.
----------
***************************************************
/Greg
BlowsMeAway Productions
See my Customer Mics album on Facebook
Bluestate on iTunes
|
Rhartt1234
161 posts
Jan 03, 2015
2:37 PM
|
Greg,
Third is killer for uptempo Jump Blues. Horn section lines and guitar and sax solo stuff fit very nicely in third.
George Smith's "Rockin'"is kind of the root of that uptempo, major, 3rd position approach.
here's some of my fravorites
|
CapitalG
40 posts
Jan 03, 2015
3:48 PM
|
I agree that the position should be used to its strengths Greg. Especially related to its modal feel. However I like to investigate the possibilities of the harp and it seems to me that a lot of the advanced players use 3rd in a major"ish" format for jump time swing.
I was just curious to hear Jason's input if he gets the chance as he's a player I've always appreciated and heard him play with Dorian a lot, but would love to see play with a swing major"ish" feel in 3rd
Thanks for the vids amazing stuff! Kim and Mark and Mr Clarke are all inspirations
G
Last Edited by CapitalG on Jan 03, 2015 3:49 PM
|
Moon Cat
483 posts
Jan 03, 2015
8:28 PM
|
G: I'm doing it now, will be up some time today.... As stated and demoed by the great videos above (and so many more) 3rd is an excellent position for major OR minor tunes (especially blues) and presents a whole mess of unique major opportunities in a few places (That have advantages over 2nd,12th and especially 1st) despite frequently touted internet dogma and pop rhetoric that are based on some truths. Coming soon G great request, great subject Sir!-Jason
----------
www.mooncat.org
Last Edited by Moon Cat on Jan 04, 2015 12:21 AM
|
CapitalG
41 posts
Jan 04, 2015
5:13 AM
|
Thanks Jason!
Very much appreciated!!
G
|
GamblersHand
553 posts
Jan 04, 2015
6:21 AM
|
Nice 3rd playing over a swing tune here
|
Greg Heumann
2930 posts
Jan 04, 2015
10:14 AM
|
Thanks, Rhartt - you're right I was being too narrow minded.
----------
***************************************************
/Greg
BlowsMeAway Productions
See my Customer Mics album on Facebook
Bluestate on iTunes
|
Moon Cat
484 posts
Jan 04, 2015
5:54 PM
|
NEW free thirty minute lesson for "G" ! It's a little over passionate/animated/bipolar etc... but the subtext of the subject deals with a largely and Easily/forgivable misunderstood pretense, finally. So I got a bit carried away as usual.
A nearly thirty minute in depth look at how third position can be exploited for quite a few major properties and where those notes are and how to use them. The video explores the true and false myths surrounding the minor associations 3rd position has been stereotyped with. Why some of these are understandable stereo types and why some of them prevent us from really using this position to maximum benefit and are actually misleading and ENTIRELY untrue. This video deals entirely with blues (I, IV, V) chord changes with a jazzy swing feel but the melodic lessons throughout the video could work for many approaches to different musical genre's as well.
----------
www.mooncat.org
Last Edited by Moon Cat on Jan 04, 2015 6:11 PM
|
indigo
31 posts
Jan 04, 2015
9:02 PM
|
good on you Mr lunar..
Thanks for sharing.I really like 3rd and look forward to watching the Vid.
Ta muchly.
|
Gnarly
1193 posts
Jan 04, 2015
10:10 PM
|
I just checked out Jason's webpage, and the lessons section totally rocks! Nicely done!
And the video gave me a new word; "Theorhetoric" LOL
Last Edited by Gnarly on Jan 08, 2015 2:36 PM
|
CapitalG
42 posts
Jan 05, 2015
12:58 AM
|
Wow thanks jason, great stuff!
G
|
ThomasToussaint
1 post
Jan 05, 2015
5:44 AM
|
Hey guys,
I did some homework with this stuff a couple months ago with my keyboard here to figure out the chords and the changes and the scale degrees of the available notes in 3rd position in both major and minor, and as far as my knowledge goes so far in different modes, too (as long as they are attainable without having to overblow because I don't use and/or control those as of yet).
One of the many examples that come to mind is in this case Aki Kumar that lays out one of the things that Jason's trying to get across here, and that is 'position playing over chord changes in 3rd position'. Check out this track called 'Mumbai Express' at 1:44 (the rest is awesome, too, by the way). It's evident that he plays 3rd position major over the I, and just the same lick in cross over the IV, which really means plays notes in a sequence with the exact same intervals (root/major third/fifth/sixth/root and the second time around he substitutes the last root for a flat seventh which is on the 4 blow on the 1-chord)
The band's in Bb and Aki's playing an Ab harp in 3rd position.
Now he does not stay in that school thinking over the V chord because that'd put him in 4th position with the -3''/-6/-10 as his root notes which are all F notes. ('Oh! Aeolian mode?' Well, possibly but not necessarily!). You could play that same boogie riff in 4th position, too, but it'd give you a weird pattern in terms of bends, blows and draws. The notes would be F/A/C/D/Eb (and not D# in this case, I believe, because it's a flatted 7th and not a raised 6th) which would be -3''/-4'/+5/+5'(OB)/+6. This is a weird combination of notes to play fluently in a sequence and the people that actually can are a minority, but hey it's not impossible!
The same idea can go for cross harp, guys. Think an A harp for this one.
I-chord = E
IV-chord = A
V-chord = B
You are holding an A harp in your hands, so you can play cross over the I-chord, 1st position on the IV-chord (A harp played in the key of A) and 3rd position on the V-chord (A harp played in the key of B)
The same idea for 1st position? Sure! Think an A harp again, but now playing in the key of A.
I-chord = A
IV-chord = D
V-chord = E
You play 1st position on the I-chord. You could technically play 12th position (A harp played in the key of D) over the IV-chord but I don't think I have heard somebody do that yet. On the V-chord you can play cross harp. A lot of people do that and the reason why that works is that the band is now playing in E and you still have your A harp so that's an easy one!
(I'm out of breath now)
Jason, I'm so glad you put this up. I think it's so relevant and important for a harp player's knowledge and it definitely opens up a whole lot of possibilities within 3rd position. Thanks G for asking!
OH and the major third in 3rd position on the I-chord is also on your 9 blowbend.
Hope this helps somebody,
Adios!
Last Edited by ThomasToussaint on Jan 05, 2015 5:57 AM
|
Rhartt1234
162 posts
Jan 05, 2015
7:13 AM
|
Mumbai Express is one of the best 3rd position jump tunes to come along in a while. I love that tune.
Someone just posted this vid of Dennis Gruenling and I from a couple of months ago.
Dennis' intro and my solo are in 3rd.
|
A440
283 posts
Jan 05, 2015
2:34 PM
|
Nice lesson Mooncat!
This connects back to a thread a couple months ago where Michelle shared her dilemma of whether to play in C with an F or LF, and discussed playing in 3rd (potentially with a country tuned Bb).
Last Edited by A440 on Jan 05, 2015 2:41 PM
|
Moon Cat
485 posts
Jan 05, 2015
4:30 PM
|
Mr. Toussaint! Excellent post Sir and very complete break down. Also yes I often think in 12th position on the IV chord when I have started in 1st! And sometimes when playing Minor or Django type stuff I'll think in 4th on the V chord when I have started in 3rd! So your right on the money with this stuff! You know even in 30 minutes I barely touched on why 3rd position is cool and it would take me basically doing a half theory/terminology lesson mixed with a 3rd and 1st and cross lesson to even get started….Very daunting but VERY fun thinking! Great Post Thomas.-Jason
----------
www.mooncat.org
|
hooktool
153 posts
Jan 05, 2015
5:33 PM
|
Awesome thread! Very enlightening for me. Thanks for your generosity, Jason. Thanks to Mr. Toussaint for his addition, and Rhartt's examples.
John
|
Moon Cat
486 posts
Jan 05, 2015
6:23 PM
|
Ryan Nice video with you and Dennis!
----------
www.mooncat.org
|
Rhartt1234
163 posts
Jan 06, 2015
4:48 AM
|
Thanks. I was egregiously overserved by an unscrupulous bartender that evening, so maybe not my best playing but I got the job done.
|
