FreeWilly
431 posts
Dec 07, 2014
3:42 AM
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Guys, I need some help.
How would you call "It's alright" by Jimmy Rodgers in the version Kim Wilson does (it has been posted here several times)? What would you tell the drummer?
Thanks so much.
Here is the link again. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dkfXhD-Nk2M
It's the second song. Start 4:45.
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Jim Rumbaugh
1059 posts
Dec 07, 2014
6:05 AM
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what I would tell the drummer:
medium shuffle, think of "Kansas City"
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theharmonicaclub.com (of Huntington, WV)
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Greg Heumann
2903 posts
Dec 08, 2014
9:53 AM
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That ain't no medium shuffle (the 1st tune was.)
I would call "slow blues in E, from the V" and that would get you 90% of the way there. It is a Jimmy Reed shuffle though, not a triplet feel which is very common in slow blues. Depending on the caliber of musicians, you need to say nothing but the name of the tune like in the video, or describe the feel, or (what I usually do) sing or play the bass line or rhythm line or both- whichever "defines" the groove.
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***************************************************
/Greg
BlowsMeAway Productions
See my Customer Mics album on Facebook
Bluestate on iTunes
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Kingley
3768 posts
Dec 08, 2014
9:59 AM
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I agree with Greg.
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Little roger
42 posts
Dec 08, 2014
10:31 AM
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I guess it depends who you are playing with. If you know and have played with the guys, you'll know what to say anyway so that they understand. If you don't, something like "Muddy-style Chicago blues from the 5. I'll kick it off." Starting a tune at a jam is usually a good way to get the others to HEAR what you want. Of course, if they have no idea about blues, you stuffed saying that too. So just "Slow blues in E from the 5" will get you somewhere near. If they don't know much about blues, it ain't going to sound like you want anyway. Generally at a jam you need to get used to the fact that isn't going to sound like what you have in your ear. The trick is to take what you get and turn it into something cool. Try to get the best out of the guys on the bandstand cos you'll never sound like Jimmy Rogers.
It certainly isn't a medium shuffle. Don't agree with Greg that it's a Jimmy Reed style shuffle either, if we are talking about the original anyway. He always had the guitar at a certain point re the back beat, Muddy and Rogers didn't. Jimmy Reed's shuffle is relatively unique, fantastic and VERY hard to get right. If you call that at an average jam, you will have anything but! Once again, depends on the quality and experience of the musicians.
R
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Jim Rumbaugh
1062 posts
Dec 08, 2014
3:17 PM
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@Greg Kingley,Roger
I want to see if we use same terms.
The video in the link posted above is about 100bpm.
Do you call that slow?
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theharmonicaclub.com (of Huntington, WV)
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Joe_L
2550 posts
Dec 08, 2014
3:25 PM
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I consider That's Alright to be a slow blues.
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The Blues Photo Gallery
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FreeWilly
432 posts
Dec 08, 2014
4:04 PM
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I could only benefit from Jim's post before the jam started. Thanks Jim.
I said: "slow shuffle in E. I'll start on B, 9th Bar." Someone didn't get it. I said "V chord". Then I made some percussive noises to indicate the speed and added that the song progresses slower than you might think. "Don't get to A too soon" I said. When everyone was agreed, I counted and started playing. And then at the turnaround a sound wall from 2 guitars hit me and I struggled through the song barely hearing myself :) Pointing out solo's and ending the song went well though. My Solo was better than the singing, because I could hear more. All and all a good experience, thanks to everybody on stage being very open and cooperative. That was nice.
Thanks for the feedback guys. Still would like to know what kind of shuffle this is!
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FreeWilly
433 posts
Dec 08, 2014
4:04 PM
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double post
Last Edited by FreeWilly on Dec 08, 2014 4:05 PM
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walterharp
1564 posts
Dec 08, 2014
7:22 PM
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not much to tell the drummer other than slow medium shuffle, just count it in on the beat
for the rest of the band, start it on the turnaround, straight 12 bar blues in E? then you can start on the 9th bar, they come in on the 10th and off you go.
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Greg Heumann
2905 posts
Dec 08, 2014
7:32 PM
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@Jim - there are multiple tunes in the video. The one in question is the SECOND tune - starts about 4:45 into the video. I measure it at 56-58bpm. And I think it is very much a Jimmy Reed shuffle - just a slower version of "Goin' to New York" for example, Or Baby What You Want me to do. And it is practically identical to Bright Lights, Big City but slower.
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***************************************************
/Greg
BlowsMeAway Productions
See my Customer Mics album on Facebook
Bluestate on iTunes
Last Edited by Greg Heumann on Dec 08, 2014 7:34 PM
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Jim Rumbaugh
1063 posts
Dec 08, 2014
7:59 PM
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Thanks Greg
Now I understand
I did not listen through the whole video.
nor did I read all the instructions on where to listen.
My error
I agree with your recommendations above.
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theharmonicaclub.com (of Huntington, WV)
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Little roger
43 posts
Dec 08, 2014
10:32 PM
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@Greg
If we are going to discuss shuffle, I think we need a new thread ;-)
Many start off thinking there is only one "shuffle" but the truth is there is a nearly infinite number of varieties, depending where the back beat, guitar and bass sit relative to each other. Not even mentioning the flat tire / off beat shuffle, where there is a sliding scale from in front of to behind the beat. If everyone gets into the magic zone at the same time, it actually shuffles :-)
R
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barbequebob
2781 posts
Dec 09, 2014
10:27 AM
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The very first tune, which was the Eddie Taylor classic, Bad Boy, is sometimes referred to as either aa Jimmy Reed shuffle or a march and it was Eddie Taylor mainly playing the "march part" on guitar, which is what Kirk Fletcher plays here. Eddie first recorded this tune as a slow blues and subsequently as both mid tempo as well as slow as well.
The Jimmy Rogers tune, That's All Right, if you were working with a REAL blues drummer (a drummer who REALLY and TRULY knows the music, not a rock drummer or the vast majority of drummers in 95% of the open jams everywhere in the world), you'd tell them a slow, down home, gut bucket blues, which means almost NO triplet ride cymbols being played and there's gonna be tons of open space in the groove, which also applies to a Muddy Waters blues sound and a more BB King/Albert King/Freddy King/Magic Sam/Otis Rush guitar based blues will usually have a much busier drum sound with less space and a rock drummer is more likely to play it like the latter than the former and if they have to work with more space, for them, it's often incredibly difficult and on a slow blues, they're far more likely to mess the time up and/or fill every single hole with damned near the kitchen sink.
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Sincerely,
Barbeque Bob Maglinte
Boston, MA
http://www.barbequebob.com
CD available at http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/bbmaglinte
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Little roger
44 posts
Dec 09, 2014
11:53 AM
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100% agreed Bob. My experience too.
R
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FreeWilly
434 posts
Dec 09, 2014
1:14 PM
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I'm really happy with the informative discussion that starts to unroll here.
I remember opening a thread on blues-grooves one time. Nett result was a couple of tips for good jam-tracks. Still believe it would be cool to make an instructional list with famous songs and the specific groove of each... Or the other way around. A list of important grooves and some famous examples of it. That would be super-helpful!
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barbequebob
2782 posts
Dec 09, 2014
1:30 PM
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Here's a blues drumming instructional book and CD set by David Barrett & Kevin Coggins worth looking at:
Blues Drums Method
He also actually has some examples on his instructional site as well that's worth checking into.
From many years of experience, whenever I hear ANY drummer saying "blues is so easy that any a**hole can play that s**t," 99% of the time, you can absolutely guarantee one thing: they're usually gonna absolutely suck at it and for me, it's damned near child's play to easily expose them as the frauds that they are. The one thing as a harp player, you'd better damn well get straight FIRST and that's your own time because too many harp players' time absolutely sucks and don't expect drummers to respect you very much if your time sucks because as far as they're concerned, you're definitely NOT a very together musician if your own time sucks.
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Sincerely,
Barbeque Bob Maglinte
Boston, MA
http://www.barbequebob.com
CD available at http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/bbmaglinte
Last Edited by barbequebob on Dec 09, 2014 1:32 PM
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FreeWilly
436 posts
Dec 10, 2014
7:05 AM
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Thanks Bob, that seems like an interesting book. The review on amazon is very telling indeed :)
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