CapitalG
33 posts
Dec 01, 2014
3:07 PM
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I currently own a early reissue Bassman which is great but I'm now looking to buy a custom smaller amp ideally with a nice creamy vintage sound.
The memphis mini, HG double trouble and marblemax have all caught my eye. But without playing them I am at a loss as which would be preferred so would like to hear feedback from guys and girls that may have used them.
The amp would be used for small and medium gigs and jam nights, ideally with a line out but still then used as a monitor for stage volume.
From videos alone the tone of the HG DT catches me straight off but I would also like to hear more from people who have tried the MM.
Thanks
G
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LSC
695 posts
Dec 01, 2014
6:38 PM
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The problem with asking for opinions from owners of boutique amps or similar expensive items is that the owner will almost always say it's the greatest thing ever if for no other reason than to say otherwise would be saying they wasted the money or regret the decision. And of course good tone is always subjective.
The three choices you mentioned all have different configurations of speakers and circuits so there is no direct comparison as such. I haven't used any of these but I have read loads of various reviews and comments on the MM and the DT. The Marble Max appears to be made in the UK and if that is correct you will be paying for shipping and customs in the price even if you buy it from a US retailer, probably and item that would have to be ordered.
The Marble Max is very similar to the HG2. On Marble website it mentions the amp being remarkable loud for it's size. I have an HG1, same as the 2 but no tone control, and found that to be true. I've used it on loads of gigs meeting your criteria of small to medium and it has a line out. Some gigs were low volume and some with the shackles taken off. I've never yet had it whacked all the way up. Very feedback resistant, I tried an AFB with it but found it wasn't needed, and very nice build quality. I've heard no end of great comments from other musicians especially the guys I play with normally. It's also really easy to carry around. They are expensive new but they do come up on the used market. I bought mine 2nd hand mainly because the deal with right. At the time I was skeptical that they were all they were cracked up to be. For the most part, the word on the street was right.
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LSC
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LSC
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R2D2
15 posts
Dec 02, 2014
4:35 AM
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You don't give a budget. I like my Mission. The Memphis Mini is not too expensive. Harp Gears are nice and there is now a Mission Delta Sonic in that range also. But although the Bassman is big and heavy the tube stack can be adjusted to get any sound you want.
Last Edited by R2D2 on Dec 02, 2014 4:38 AM
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FreeWilly
425 posts
Dec 02, 2014
7:36 AM
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Marble is made in the Netherlands, not the UK. Very loud indeed. But I haven't compared it to a MM, so that is not saying very much. It has a very specific middy vintage sound to it. I dig it.
Thing is: Marble is handmade from the base up. MM starts it's life in China and has a good speaker, tweed and some mods done to the circuitry in the States. The Marble involves more craftsmanship, which you pay for. That's a big aspect in this choice I'd say.
I would look one size up probably for a full band setting. HG DT or Marble Blue Sonic. Mission Sonic. Not hearing yourself is so crappy.
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Joe_L
2546 posts
Dec 02, 2014
10:35 AM
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I own a Double Trouble, a Mission Chicago and a tweed Champ clone. The three are very different. The Champ clone is completely unusable in a band setting unless the drummer is using brushes.
The Double Trouble is a great amp. It isn't as loud as the Mission Chicago, but I really like it. The Mission Chicago is a very toneful, too. It doesn't do low volume well, but it is almost as loud as my Super Sonny.
If I had to keep one of the three. I would keep the Double Trouble. It is small. It sounds great. It is feedback resistant. It's loud enough for most bars.
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The Blues Photo Gallery
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S-harp
230 posts
Dec 02, 2014
11:07 AM
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I have only tried the DT of the ones mentioned above. It's a great amp ... and with loud 18 W. It has the best tone-power-weight-portabilaty-durability-ratio I've come across.
Too loud for smaller gigs. It needs to sweat a bit to cream up. When I first got it I brought it to a couple of smaller gigs and it just didn't work.
This is the kind of amp that doesn't sound that great played alone. The stock speakers fart (I got 2x8'), it hums quite a bit on idle, and some frequenzes pop out when you play. Doesn't do well in studios either. But on stage!! It's a killer. The sound blends in excellent with a full band setting. Be aware that in some consert halls/ rooms it might not project your playing all the way through to the listeners in the back. Not with the 2x8' setup at least. The line out doesn't sound that great. Better to mic it in those cases.
I wouldn' t say it has a vintage creamy sound. It has a bit more modern sound ... a bit more R&R ...
The tone control is excellent and can put you from way back in the soundscape to "in your face-front and center-cut"
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TetonJohn
224 posts
Dec 02, 2014
11:26 AM
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Is it against the rules or just in bad taste to mention that there is a pristine DT near the top of p.5 of the 2014 For Sale page? (In bad taste because it's mine.)
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Bryan A
19 posts
Dec 02, 2014
11:29 AM
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The MM holds it's own pretty well in smaller bars. I'm really digging the tone, it's what I was looking for. I haven't tried the others, but when I was researching amps before I purchased they all seem like excellent choices. The guys I play with usually mic it for any room larger than small. Haven't tried the line out yet.
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Bryan A
20 posts
Dec 02, 2014
11:34 AM
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I've read nothing but good things about the Kalamazoo amps as well, they cost under 300
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Joe_L
2547 posts
Dec 02, 2014
11:53 AM
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S-harp - I never noticed the speaker farting out problem that you mentioned on my DT and I have a 2x8" with the original speakers. One person that I know mentioned that his line out had a small hum, but mine does not.
John Nemeth used my amp on one of his CD's that he recorded at Greaseland Studios. It sounded pretty good.
It definitely doesn't sound as vintage as some vintage amps, but I think a lot of that sound will come from technique. If I was looking for a distorted, vintage sound, I would find a used Mini Meat.
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The Blues Photo Gallery
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S-harp
231 posts
Dec 02, 2014
1:01 PM
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Joe_L ... The DT is just too loud for studio work for my taste, but hey, of course you can make it work. I did studio work once with my 4x10 DeVille (only amp I had that worked at the moment) and it sounded great ... And yes, unfortunately the stock speakers do fart out (on my DT) when you cup tight. But it still works fine with a full band setting.
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PeterG
28 posts
Dec 02, 2014
2:01 PM
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I like the idea of "a custom smaller amp ideally with a nice creamy vintage sound," but haven't heard one yet in a live, jam-type situation (except on videos posted on this site)in which the small amp wasn't overpowered by the volume of the other players, or didn't become shrill or more feedback prone when pushed to higher volumes through the PA. (See prior conversations about the impact of larger and more speakers on moving air, and bringing a "knife to a gunfight") I would think you'd see more pros using small amps at more venues if they were finding it to be a workable solution (Adam excepted because of the tone he prefers and which apparently takes two amps to generate). I would like to believe the Wezo ME-18 could work for medium or small venues that become loud, if only because it looks so good and sounds like it has all the right features, but I haven't heard enough folks say it can compete in the louder jams.
I observed (but did not play) the memphis mini being used at a jam with a line-out and although it was loud, to my ear it was thin and harsh, kind of like a blues junior without modding, and not at all creamy. Could it sound better if everyone else turned down and the PA was set up properly? Possibly, but if you're only going to play a 3 or 4 songs at a jam, do you want to risk that when you get up to play, your rig isn't loud enough or you can't get into the PA the way you want and without feeding back when you turn up?
I tend to bring a big rig to jams to be sure to be heard and to hear myself and get the tone I want. I yearn for something smaller and lighter and easier to lug that can sound as good as the big rig, but jam volumes tend to be unpredictable, at best, and buying something to experiment and be wrong can get expensive fast. So I'll keeping looking and lugging until I'm persuaded there's a better way. Maybe when Greg Heumann gives up his Sonny for a single speaker amp? :)
Last Edited by PeterG on Dec 02, 2014 2:03 PM
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LSB
140 posts
Dec 02, 2014
3:51 PM
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I was thinking of suggesting the MegaTone ME-18 as well. I have the MegaTone Wezo45, which is awesome but heavy, so I'm keeping my eyes open for a used ME-18 for jam sessions. I have a DT and I like the sound, but the hum irritates me. I wonder how Nemeth dealt with that in the studio.
PeterG, regarding the ME-18 volume relative to a band, have you seen this video?
http://youtu.be/ZIxa0snKRuk
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PeterG
29 posts
Dec 03, 2014
11:49 AM
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I've seen that video and wish there were more of that amp in live situations in larger and louder venues. I've heard Dan Treanor a number of times and participated in jams he's led at more than one venue. He plays at what I consider painfully loud volumes and at none of those did he use a small amp or that ME-18 which I don't think was his.
When you use the Wezo45, what speaker(s) do you use with it and how do you like the tone? Do you prefer it over other amps you've used?
Last Edited by PeterG on Dec 03, 2014 11:51 AM
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rogonzab
626 posts
Dec 04, 2014
10:40 AM
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A cranked champ is awesome.
Go for the MM.
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Sorry for any misspell, english is not my first language.
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R2D2
16 posts
Dec 04, 2014
1:58 PM
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S-harp wasn't the DeVille much louder than the DT?
Just curious.
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S-harp
233 posts
Dec 04, 2014
2:57 PM
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R2D2 --- If the DeVille wasn't too loud? He he ... It's always too loud in a studio. But hey, it was my only functional amp at that time and no time to borrow one, what can one do?
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R2D2
18 posts
Dec 04, 2014
3:15 PM
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Gotcha!
I've played a Deville for years.
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colman
324 posts
Dec 06, 2014
7:16 AM
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For a long time i used a Champ turned up full and connected direct to PA too.with a mic in front also.no reverb but an a$$ kicking sound honkability...Now i use a Musicman 60/30,2-10, always on 30 with master on 5 and vol. cranked to 10 this setup is it for me...
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FBInsMan
24 posts
Dec 06, 2014
12:55 PM
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I just played through a mint silvertone 1482 this morning. It had exquisitely beautiful tone.
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"The only way to get better is to play a little outside your comfort zone every time you play!"
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SuperBee
2282 posts
Dec 08, 2014
2:44 AM
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mere speculation, but if the MM and the MM are 5F1-based, i would not expect much creaminess from them. crunch.
i have actually heard a DT live, but there are other factors to consider, such as the player and his mic, so i dunno.
i do know that you cant tell much about an amp from listening to recordings
e.g. i have 4 quite differeent 5 watt SE valve amps..2 which run EL84s, 2 run 6V6s. i played the same harp through the same mic into them each in turn. i checked the spl for each amp and set my Zoom portable recorder level so that it didnt distort. on the recording the amps were unable to be distinguished from one another. in the room they were distinctly different
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RippinRonny
1 post
Dec 08, 2014
9:36 PM
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Always checked out this sight but decided to check in for the first time. Chasing that sound seems to be a very expensive obsession but it's one of those things that can't be helped since ,as LSC points out, it is personally subjective. The one lesson I've learned is unless you're a techy that can resurrect a classic amp at a reasonable cost there is no point in buying an old guitar amp and tweaking it constantly to make it harp friendly. Spending the coin on a boutique harp amp by some of the quality amp builders out there is a satisfying investment. The only caveat is making a selection / decision based on a video as opposed to trying the amp out yourself. If you get to try out an amp and you love the tone and it suits your style then ......
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GamblersHand
546 posts
Dec 09, 2014
9:43 AM
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I use a Marble Max - a great crunchy little amp with a very warm sound.
Quite different to the HG2 (or DT) in my opinion, which is a little quieter and colder, less punchy. Still good though.
If on interest, here's me (intermediate-ish) playing through the Max with no effects. Harp at about the 2 minute mark
For a fuller sound using a Y-splitter or in series into my VHT Special 6 sounds good - though considerably smoother.
I've also used a Y-splitter with a Max and an HG2 - a fantastic sound.
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zackattack
5 posts
Dec 09, 2014
3:53 PM
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I recently acquired a Mission Delta Sonic Pro and coupled it with a Blows Me Away Ultimate 545 mic. It puts out a lot of sound and tone choices and, for the first time ever, I was able to play over the band if I chose to!
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blueswannabe
530 posts
Dec 09, 2014
7:34 PM
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kalamazoo model 2. great sound. if not loud enough, just mic it. Mine has a line out but I prefer to mic it.
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PeterG
30 posts
Dec 09, 2014
8:00 PM
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Took the Kendrick champ clone out to a jam last night and it sufficed, but only because the band was as quiet as the one in the Marble Max video. That volume is pretty rare for jams around here, though.
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RippinRonny
2 posts
Dec 09, 2014
8:56 PM
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With most rooms I use a Mission 32-20 which I find very versatile since you can swap out 6l6 for 6v6 and get a completely different shape on output. With 6l6 it is generous with oomph even when the band gets loud. My fave is my 55 Princeton clone 5F2A made by valvetrain. I mic it to hear myself in medium settings but I can crank it to 10 with no feedback and serious crunchy sound you just can't get with the bigger rig. I've always found the sound of the small amps to have more character. I agree with blueswannabe. I also prefer to mic as opposed to line out.
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JJ Harper
33 posts
Dec 10, 2014
7:56 PM
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Not sure I know exactly what you mean by "creamy" in a small amp, but the Mission Delta Sonic has that kind of sound, I think. The MM amp is all crunch and bark. And loud. I saw on Facebook in one of the harp forums that Harpsucker (Thomas Feldman) tried the MM and said it sounded good and was loud enough with a full band.
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MN
357 posts
Dec 11, 2014
2:33 AM
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I have a Marble Max and love it. But if I still lived in the States and needed an amp, I'd go with an American maker. Just too expensive to get a U.S. version made and have it shipped.
MY choice would be a Memphis Mini.
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Last Edited by MN on Dec 11, 2014 2:34 AM
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slim_willson
1 post
Dec 12, 2014
1:03 AM
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I actually have all three amps although the Marble Max is not the standard model: mine has an octal pre-amp and a 10” speaker. The Max is my favourite by some distance although this probably says more about my taste and style as a player than it does about the relative merits of the amps. It really lends itself to ‘40s and ‘50s amplified and part amplified blues although I am sure it can cover other styles. I took it out last night to a small pub gig where I was playing horn parts with a sax player for most of the evening and it worked beautifully. Marble Amps’ after sales service is exceptional too.
The Double Trouble is a great combination of low weight and high volume, a really practical package, but its underlying character does not seem as responsive to hand movements, varying attack etc which is what I look for in an amp. It works very well with pedals, however, and so may open up all sorts of possibilities for players who are less stick in the mud than me.
The Memphis Mini is a great bargain. I can’t quite extract the dynamic response that comes effortlessly from the Marble Max but it was about a third of the price. You could buy a couple of them use one or two amps, depending on the venue.
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CapitalG
35 posts
Dec 13, 2014
9:45 AM
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Thanks for the response!! Crikey!!
A friend of mine has just made me aware of the lone wolf amps and heads are coming out shortly also. They appear to be well priced and if they anything like the performance of the pedals will be well worth it.
I live in the UK so have been considering the marble max for a while also as it would be fairly easy to get hold of and I would avoid import tax easily.
Will let you guy know the outcome and do a little demo!
G
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NathanLWBC
29 posts
Dec 13, 2014
9:59 AM
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@CapitalG...The Lone Wolf Harp Train 10 will be available in early 2015. It's an 8-watt amplifier with one 10" speaker. The head will be coming out later in 2015. Our price should be in the $350 range.
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--Nathan Heck
Lead Technician, Lone Wolf Blues Co.
customerservice@lonewolfblues.com
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Kingley
3772 posts
Dec 13, 2014
10:40 AM
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CapitalG - Harmonicas Direct will also be selling an 8 watt valve amp next year. They haven't released any other details or pricing yet, but that's another option to consider.
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FreeWilly
437 posts
Dec 13, 2014
1:40 PM
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A dedicated harp amp, 8 watt, through a ten inch, 350$?
That sounds very interesting.
When will the 16 watt version be there?? ;)
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rogonzab
629 posts
Dec 14, 2014
5:29 AM
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$350 for a custom amp?!?!
Gear is so cheap in USA and so expensive in other countrys (included mine).
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Sorry for any misspell, english is not my first language.
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NathanLWBC
30 posts
Dec 15, 2014
7:44 AM
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@Kingley...That amp from Harmonicas Direct is ours. He's our UK distributor and will be handling all European orders.
@FreeWilly...The next one we are working on is a 40 watt head.
@Rogonzab...It is not a custom amp. It is manufactured in a factory in China to our specs. We believe the custom market is flooded and wanted to create something affordable designed specifically for harp.
Here's the link to the info we have currently made public.
https://www.lonewolfblues.com/harptrain10.html
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--Nathan Heck
Lead Technician, Lone Wolf Blues Co.
customerservice@lonewolfblues.com
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Kingley
3778 posts
Dec 15, 2014
8:55 AM
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Nathan, I suspected that would be the case. Thanks for the confirmation. I think the goal of something affordable designed specifically for harp is admirable and I hope it's a great success. I certainly look forward to checking one out when Peter gets them in stock.
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JJ Harper
35 posts
Dec 17, 2014
4:16 PM
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NathanLWBC, does the amp have a tube rectifier? What is the tube lineup? What is the speaker? (Brands)
So, the Lone Wolf amp is a VHT Special 6 for $100 more?
Last Edited by JJ Harper on Dec 17, 2014 4:47 PM
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NathanLWBC
31 posts
Dec 18, 2014
8:27 AM
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@JJ Harper...The amp has a solid state rectifier to make the amp punchier and more responsive.
The tube lineup is one 12ax7 and a 6L6. Even though we use a 12ax7, the gain in the preamp has been adjusted to match the 12ax7 to eliminate excessive preamp gain. The 12ax7 is needed to drive the "Balls" circuit.
The speaker is a proprietary speaker built for us to our specifications. We AB'd it with other speakers that we have in shop and it produced a more vintage tone(early breakup) than the rest of them.
There are major differences between our amplifier and the VHT. The very first point is that our amp is designed for harp, not guitar. So, the frequency response of our amp, the gain, and the coupling capacitors are all optimized for harp. We also have the "Balls" circuit which is our own unique tone circuit. It provides a true bass/low mid boost without cutting highs, unlike most amp tone circuits.
If you have any other questions, let me know.
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--Nathan Heck
Lead Technician, Lone Wolf Blues Co.
customerservice@lonewolfblues.com
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JJ Harper
36 posts
Dec 18, 2014
9:00 AM
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SS rectifier means no sag, no squeeze to the amp. Amps with a tube rectifier can be very punchy but still have an organic feel. That is what makes a good expressive harp amp, but it costs a little more.
With the simple swap of a 5751 tube into the VHT Special 6 amp it sounds great for harp. A JJ 5751 tube costs only $14. Total investment would be $263.
Is the speaker ceramic or alnico? Is the "BALLS" circuit switchable?
And finally, how did you arrive at your power figure? 1x 6V6 amps usually make about 5 watts. Amp makers sometimes fudge the figure upwards. Does the amp make 8 watts at the point the signal begins to clip (the traditional measurement) or is this peak power?
Thanks. I plan to order one.
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NathanLWBC
32 posts
Dec 19, 2014
6:24 AM
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A single ended amp cannot achieve sag. Randy explains this at length in one of his amp building blogs on our website. I'll quote the relevant text. For reference, he is also building a single ended 6L6 amplifier in this blog.
"The rectifier is the component that converts AC to DC current, and we have two choices here: tube or solid state. Tube is the traditional choice, but solid state is the logical choice; why? Because heat is the enemy of electronic components, and tube rectifiers generate a lot of heat; they are also inefficient, producing lower voltages and putting extra load on the power transformer. An issue that often comes up with tube rectifiers is sag: distortion created by tube rectifiers, i.e. compression when there is a sudden heavy current draw. In this case, we are building a single-ended amp. In a single-ended amp, there is maximum current draw at idle when you are not playing hard; the current draw actually decreases when you begin playing, just the opposite condition that is needed to produce sag, which simply does not exist in a single-ended amp period. In the event we were building a push-pull amp, it would be different, and we would have to decide if we want sag or not. But we are building a single-ended amp, so it is not an issue. A solid state rectifier is efficient, does not produce excessive heat, is much cheaper, and most importantly it will not take away from the tone of the amp. So, solid state is the rectifier that we will use."
The speaker is ceramic and the "Balls" circuit is not switchable. It acts like a standard tone circuit except that it actually boosts the bass and low mids instead of cutting the highs.
The amp has eight watts at the point at which it begins to clip.
I hope this answers your questions.
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--Nathan Heck
Lead Technician, Lone Wolf Blues Co.
customerservice@lonewolfblues.com
Last Edited by NathanLWBC on Dec 19, 2014 6:24 AM
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