JustFuya
418 posts
Aug 29, 2014
9:05 PM
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Before the Hell's Angels took over security I went to a lot of 'free' concerts. I shuffled my way to the front so I could watch the artists. The best ones looked pained on a simple string bend or mechanical waa. I felt it because they appeared to be pushing it out from the bottom of their heart.
Lately, I see a lot of videos with excellent musicianship where the artist seems indifferent. If not for the visual I might enjoy it more. If music is accompanied by camera I don't want to see someone sitting expressionless in their easy chair. I expect movement appropriate to the groove. Showmanship & sweat.
To bolster my point I will take this opportunity to yet again post one of my favorite videos. Instead of directing your attention to the harp player/vocalist, as I usually do, I would like you to focus on the keyboard. I don't know his name. He is a stranger to me. He is certainly an essential part of band and a master of his instrument but he pisses me off. On recordings he is perfect. In this video he seems self possessed. I might love the fella in real life but in this impersonal web world I judge with limited input and his is the only head that doesn't bob.
I don't lose sleep over it. I won't stalk him and shower him with negativity. I'll just mentally note and hope to be proven wrong eventually.
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markdc70
152 posts
Aug 29, 2014
10:03 PM
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While I can understand where you're coming from, I think you're being a bit too critical. When I was in my early twenties and going to Grateful Dead shows about 6 times a year, I always questioned if somebody, usually older fans, could truly appreciate the show if they weren't dancing. Now that I'm older, I know that you can absolutely enjoy it as much or even more if you aren't dancing. That live groove can fill you up and move you mentally without the need to necessarily get up and move your body. I know our host Adam is a fan of the dance, but Jerry Garcia rarely moved from his slouch, and he certainly felt the groove. I hate a cocky attitude as much as you do, but at least from this video, I really don't catch that vibe from the keyboard player.
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Komuso
385 posts
Aug 29, 2014
10:34 PM
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I don't know what video you're looking at but watching the body language from 3.00 (body swings, shoulder muscle tension, facial expression, etc) of the keyboard player he is well into the groove and showmanship. Just because he's not an O face bobble head like the rest of the thunderbirds doesn't mean he's not grooving.
Unless you mean another keyboard player?
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Paul Cohen aka Komuso Tokugawa
HarpNinja - Your harmonica Mojo Dojo
Bringing the Boogie to the Bitstream
Last Edited by Komuso on Aug 29, 2014 10:38 PM
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Little roger
16 posts
Aug 29, 2014
11:26 PM
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Of course it's important for the audience to get something from the physical presence of the players. You can do this like Muddy and his band by hardly moving but rather through intensity (though he too employed the old coke-bottle-in-the-trousers trick) or like Wolf, who was known for his on-stage antics. . There are styles of music that lend itself more to what you may refer to as showmanship - think Jason and his show. And others where it distracts. Either way, make your presence felt
Personally, the bobbing around on this video drives me crazy and makes the show seem dated to me. Particularly as the harp line is so simple, you hardly need to milk it for all its worth. Just stand still and play a line that grooves! I like the keyboard player during his solo - cool but intense.
Is it an age and era thing perhaps?
Last Edited by Little roger on Aug 29, 2014 11:29 PM
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JustFuya
422 posts
Aug 30, 2014
2:28 AM
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It could very well be an age/era thing. I'm open to all the possibilities in spite of my maturity. I don't like to drip sweat on stage but it has happened. I do appreciate it when others do tho. It gives my ticket more value.
Yup. Simple harp line in the woodshed. But he sings and plays on a big stage. I don't see a lot of that done here. Harp is absolutely fine but if you expect to carry a show you best have more than one tool.
BUT...my point is lost. I clarified to the black hole spam collector and my feeble fingers are done for the night.
Last Edited by JustFuya on Aug 30, 2014 2:29 AM
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mastercaster
74 posts
Aug 30, 2014
3:20 AM
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Actually the piano player looks fine, takes his ride and looks to be 'into it' imo ...
To be honest , i'm not too much into watching guitar players bending a string and the face looks like he's pulling out nose hairs .....
It's my good friend Jimmy Shane - fishing/riding buddy playing the gold top Les Paul .. who seems the most 'relaxed' , a top level player, we've played many times together .. Jimmy is always 'relaxed' ... too funny .....
Here's vid posted last week with Jimmy playing w/Mitch Kashmar & The Pontiax ...
Last Edited by mastercaster on Aug 30, 2014 4:06 AM
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The Iceman
1980 posts
Aug 30, 2014
3:29 AM
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Musicianship with showmanship?
Sounds like a revue of a Rick Estrin and the Nightcats show.
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The Iceman
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wolfkristiansen
320 posts
Aug 30, 2014
3:46 AM
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Here you go, Iceman. You mean "review". From your grade six English teacher, Ms Kristiansen. Spelling and grammar are still important.
Cheers,
Ms Wolfia Kristiansen
Last Edited by wolfkristiansen on Aug 30, 2014 3:51 AM
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The Iceman
1982 posts
Aug 30, 2014
3:59 AM
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Whenever I run into a Grammar Nazi, I always calm them by saying "there, their, they're".
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The Iceman
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kudzurunner
4909 posts
Aug 30, 2014
5:32 AM
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Here's the George Harmonic Smith revue. This is my benchmark for harp playing with stagecraft:
After the first two choruses, it bears almost no relation to the original "Juke." By the time he gets to the 1:30 point, you have forgotten that Little Walter ever existed. THAT, my friends, is how to play the instrument. It's the perfect combination of stagecraft and crazy-ass harp blowing. It's not subtle--although some of it is surprisingly technical--but it IS the soul of blues harmonica, as I've come to know and cherish it.
Last Edited by kudzurunner on Aug 30, 2014 5:36 AM
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SmokeJS
293 posts
Aug 30, 2014
7:14 AM
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With that stare George Smith would have made a hell of a gunslinger. Thanks for posting!
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JustFuya
423 posts
Aug 30, 2014
10:51 AM
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And look how the crowd joins in with GHS.
There is an era aspect to my OP. I saw the whole concert which included a visit from the Grill.
I notice a lot of older videos where the crowds sit on folding chairs and politely clap after each song. I wonder who the first person was who stood up and bounced. I'm sure he was soon followed by the vocal "down-in-front" contingent. Front rows suck almost immediately at a good show.
Regarding my reason for posting, this was a badly executed attempt to address a theme that pops up here on regular occasion. I have no intention to single out anyone in particular. If you are performing while sitting in a chair and you appear indifferent I have to work harder to appreciate the amazing skill. Enthusiasm is contagious.
But I am not going away from this thread without taking a gem with me. That "there their they're" comment from Iceman is a keeper.
Last Edited by JustFuya on Aug 30, 2014 11:05 AM
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LittleBubba
310 posts
Aug 30, 2014
11:08 AM
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I've played harp and keyboards for about 45 years. I've struggled with the issue of how animated to get. I've discovered that I'm way more animated when I'm soloing on harp than I am when I'm comping with a rhythm section.
As for keyboard/piano: I saw Pinetop Perkins in concert a few times - with a full band -- and I remember noticing that you could hardly see a movement out of him from the other side of the piano. While his hands were all over the place, his arms, shoulders and head hardly seemed to move at all. I took it that he was playin' so many notes that he had to be efficient with the rest of his movements. Of course he was at least 80 yrs. old at those concerts.
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CarlA
581 posts
Aug 30, 2014
11:14 AM
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Rick Estrin has a section on showmanship at the end of his DVD that states the following(paraphrasing): just be yourself on stage! The crowd will see right through you if you attempt something that isn't in your NATURAL personality.
Fwiw, my opinion is that people connect with the music you produce, not the way you "shake" yourself on stage. My 2 cents
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Greg Heumann
2818 posts
Aug 30, 2014
11:36 AM
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"Musicianship with showmanship?
Sounds like a revue of a Rick Estrin and the Nightcats show."
That was my exact thought when I read the title of this thread. Rick is a master.
Another master in a TOTALLY different way is Charlie Musselwhite. He is not "showy" at all but he talks to the audience a good bit and manages to build a great rapport with them. Audiences LOVE Charlie. It is amazing to watch.
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***************************************************
/Greg
BlowsMeAway Productions
See my Customer Mics album on Facebook
Bluestate on iTunes
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LittleBubba
311 posts
Aug 30, 2014
11:40 AM
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@Greg: yeah, but you can't count Charlie. Most of us just aren't that COOL ! He could look good playin' a didgeroo. :-)
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walterharp
1504 posts
Aug 30, 2014
11:54 AM
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how about Entwistle in The Who?
the rest of the band goes nuts... moon, daltry and townshend, entwistle just stands there and sort of nods his head.
Last Edited by walterharp on Aug 30, 2014 2:32 PM
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jpmcbride
66 posts
Aug 30, 2014
12:04 PM
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The Iceman is dead on! I just saw Rick Estrin and the Nightcats last week at the Bean Blossom Blues Festival in Indiana and it was one of the most entertaining, if not THE MOST entertaining, live show I've ever seen.
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Jim McBride
www.bottleoblues.com
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Frank
5182 posts
Aug 30, 2014
5:55 PM
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Hope I'm not the only Elvis fan here:)
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JustFuya
430 posts
Aug 30, 2014
7:03 PM
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Yup. Rick Estrin is on the high end of the showmanship spectrum. He has it going when he performs. But he is to be admired, not imitated. Being yourself is important. Himself cracks me up while delivering some spot on music.
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JustFuya
431 posts
Aug 30, 2014
7:23 PM
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Since the passive aggressive message of my OP has been totally lost I must share this. I think I know the difference between feigned & pained antics but this video covers the feigned stuff in good humor.
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JustFuya
432 posts
Aug 30, 2014
7:36 PM
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Frank - To be honest I was never an Elvis fan. Not my genre but your video has me rethinking and not just because he has a personal mic holder. Excellent vocals.
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STME58
1051 posts
Aug 30, 2014
10:10 PM
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I heard an article on the radio some time ago that talked about a change in the way symphony orchestras are selecting musicians. They have changed tack and now want musicians who move a bit to the music rather than sit and play like robots as was the old standard. Great musicianship alone is no longer enough even in the (formerly) stuffy world of the classical symphony.
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Brad Arvidson
10 posts
Aug 30, 2014
11:21 PM
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Yup, Walterharp- John Entwistle just nods and plays in his Skeleton outfit........
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JustFuya
436 posts
Aug 30, 2014
11:45 PM
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I have some respect for those who can present their music without showing the emotion that they must have. I think it's an act that was perfected quite some time ago, especially in orchestras as STME stated. Make it look easy and don't dare anyone stand out.
I think you don't have to sit on a pickle but give me the slightest notion that you are emotionally engaged and I will invest with my ears.
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