jnorem
317 posts
Jun 24, 2014
5:19 PM
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To make the blow reeds as loose and responsive as the draw reeds, is it a smaller gap or a bigger one?
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Call me J
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arzajac
1412 posts
Jun 24, 2014
5:40 PM
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I'm sorry but I will give you the long answer.
Don't gap using your eyeballs. Gap to effect. Use your eyes to get the gap in the ballpark of where you think it should be for the effect you are looking for and then adjust one way or the other using your breath as a guide. Your eyes will not give you the information you need.
"Loose and responsive" is the ultimate! We all want reeds that are not tightly gapped, but respond quickly. You don't achieve this with gapping (well, not 100 per cent of the time!). Gapping gets you to the sweet spot where you have to sacrifice both things the least.
To make the "sweet spot" bigger (so you don't have to compromise), you need to make your harp more airtight, make the reed shape ideal and embossing will get you the extra mile.
If this helps your question a little, players tend to hit draw notes harder. Both the draw and blow reeds respond the same to gapping, but most players will tolerate tighter blow reeds than tighter draw reeds. But ideally, you shouldn't have to compromise. If you are getting around the issue by gapping, it's because you are not dealing with the underlying problem with the hole in question.
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Custom overblow harps. Harmonica service and repair.
Last Edited by arzajac on Jun 24, 2014 5:42 PM
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jnorem
318 posts
Jun 24, 2014
5:50 PM
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Hi arzajac, thanks for the excellent reply.
I'm with you on embossing, but I don't know what you mean by making the reed shape ideal. It may be beyond my abilities.
I probably should have said that I play the Special 20, which is already a fairly airtight harp, kind of sort of.
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Call me J
Last Edited by jnorem on Jun 24, 2014 5:53 PM
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harpwrench
875 posts
Jun 24, 2014
6:00 PM
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Tighter blow than draw reeds in upper register yes, lower 6 holes no way.
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www.spiersharmonicas.com
High performance harmonicas.
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jnorem
319 posts
Jun 24, 2014
6:36 PM
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"Tighter blow than draw reeds in upper register yes, lower 6 holes no way."
Hi, Joe. Do you mean a smaller, closer gap on the upper reeds?
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Call me J
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arzajac
1413 posts
Jun 24, 2014
6:44 PM
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"Tighter blow than draw reeds in upper register yes, lower 6 holes no way."
On a normal working harp - absolutely. But I'm talking about making a choice when all you can do is gap. You need to tighten one or the other (to the point where they stick under hard pressure) - which can you tolerate more?
If you have to chose between one or the other, like if you just bought a bad harp and the only way to get it to work is to gap it in your car before the gig, it's easier to make a sticky blow reed work for you than a sticky draw reed. Many harps I get with sticky draw 1, 2 or 3 are called "unplayable" by their owners. But ones with sticky blow reeds are just "trouble with..."
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Custom overblow harps. Harmonica service and repair.
Last Edited by arzajac on Jun 24, 2014 6:53 PM
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arzajac
1414 posts
Jun 24, 2014
6:49 PM
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"I'm with you on embossing, but I don't know what you mean by making the reed shape ideal. It may be beyond my abilities. "
For example, if the reed passes thought the slot head-first or has a bend in the middle as it passes through the slot, then you won't get it to play as well as if the whole reed passes through the slot at the same time.
You can change the curve/shape of the reed to improve how it responds and how it sounds. It's more work than gapping. But "loose" and "responsive" can be opposites if the reed shape is far from good. You won't ever get both qualities. I mention it because there is only so much you can expect from gapping.
If you are pulling out your hair because you have been gapping and gapping the same reeds for hours and they still don't work like in Joe's (excellent) gapping videos, there's a reason. There's always a reason. (I wish I knew them all!)
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Custom overblow harps. Harmonica service and repair.
Last Edited by arzajac on Jun 24, 2014 6:53 PM
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jnorem
320 posts
Jun 24, 2014
7:05 PM
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I haven't even removed the covers yet.
The harp in question is an excellent harmonica, it plays like a dream, but the 6 blow isn't "twanging" like the rest of the reeds. I just wondered if gapping that reed would solve the problem. Now I see that there's more to it than that.
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Call me J
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arzajac
1415 posts
Jun 24, 2014
7:11 PM
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Maybe not. Try it and see! A poorly gapped reed may be the cause. It's easy enough...
Also, think in pairs. If the 6 draw is way loose, you may find the 6 blow doesn't have enough power, for example.
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Custom overblow harps. Harmonica service and repair.
Last Edited by arzajac on Jun 24, 2014 7:13 PM
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jnorem
321 posts
Jun 24, 2014
7:16 PM
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I'll try it then. But now we're back to my question: small gap or bigger? I mean, I'll have to go in one direction or the other, so which would you recommend?
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Call me J
Last Edited by jnorem on Jun 24, 2014 7:16 PM
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harpwrench
876 posts
Jun 24, 2014
7:36 PM
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J- Breathe the chord lightly, if the note comes in late tighten the gap, if it comes in sooner open it. Typically the lower note of the 2 reeds sharing a chamber will like a wider gap than the higher pitch (not talking OB setup). I actually have gapped a harp or three in my car on the way to (paid) gigs Andrew. My experience is that a harp that's too loose is a lot more useful on stage than one that sticks in the heat of the moment. So I wouldn't intentionally make the choice you're proposing (one or the other being too tight).
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www.spiersharmonicas.com
High performance harmonicas.
Last Edited by harpwrench on Jun 24, 2014 7:37 PM
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jnorem
323 posts
Jun 24, 2014
7:57 PM
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It comes in late, it actually does; just by a hair but I can feel it as well as hear it. So it's tighten the gap, then.
I'm cooking dinner tonight, a pork loin with the whole grain mustard. Once dinner is finished I'll get out my little tool box and have a go.
Look at this: I put up a question and Andrew Zajac and Joe Spiers both weigh in. Are you kidding me? This forum is priceless.
I'll report back with my results. Thank you, gentlemen.
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Call me J
Last Edited by jnorem on Jun 24, 2014 8:04 PM
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Gnarly
1038 posts
Jun 24, 2014
10:51 PM
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You might take a look at the one I did for you (you like it), and copy the profile and gapping.
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Kingley
3617 posts
Jun 24, 2014
11:02 PM
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As always Joe Spiers is the man. That is a great tip, which I didn't know and I've been gapping my harps for years. Thanks Joe.
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jnorem
328 posts
Jun 25, 2014
7:38 PM
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Hi Gary. Yours was gapped pretty close, and compared to the one I'm having this issue with, it's gapped the same, almost exactly the same.
So I've decided to leave well enough alone.
I don't think it's possible to make a reed plate where every reed's action is absolutely consistent with the rest, just the way you want it, across the entire instrument, blow and draw. Not unless those Dannaker harps are like that, which they'd bloody well better be, given the prices that guy's asking.
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Call me J
Last Edited by jnorem on Jun 25, 2014 7:38 PM
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arzajac
1416 posts
Jun 25, 2014
8:27 PM
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"I don't think it's possible to make a reed plate where every reed's action is absolutely consistent with the rest, just the way you want it, across the entire instrument, blow and draw."
It's absolutely possible. It's not even hard. And consistent response across the instrument is an important way to prolong reed life - if one reed is "stubborn", you tend to hit it and the other notes adjascent to it too hard and increase the chance of a blow out.
If you are feeling like this is overwhelming, take a break. Don't try to get perfection in one day. Try again in a week or so. Make small incremental changes towards perfection.
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Custom overblow harps. Harmonica service and repair.
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jnorem
330 posts
Jun 25, 2014
8:38 PM
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It's not so much that I find it overwhelming, it's more a matter of just accepting the way harmonicas are, the way they're made and the way they are when you take one out of the box, the way they've always been since I started playing in 69, just playing what you've got. I try not to think about it too much.
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Call me J
Last Edited by jnorem on Jun 25, 2014 8:40 PM
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Gnarly
1039 posts
Jun 25, 2014
10:14 PM
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Hey Jay,
Yes, I tend to gap low--several of my more famous customers have commented. I have low tidal volume, and don't move a lot of air.
Practice all this stuff on your old dead harps, make all your mistakes on harps you no longer play!
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