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Dirty-South Blues Harp forum: wail on! > Lets Talk THEORY (Form Vs style) in Bluesville
Lets Talk THEORY (Form Vs style) in Bluesville
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Frank
4587 posts
Jun 21, 2014
5:32 AM
Mr. Diggs...mentioned something along the lines of (Form Vs style) stating below...

"It's funny in jazz they all approach blues as a Form and not a style".

At first glance it is easy to understand what Diggs is getting at!

But - would anyone like to elaborate and shed their meaning to these approaches to the blues idiom?

Last Edited by Frank on Jun 21, 2014 5:32 AM
Diggsblues
1383 posts
Jun 21, 2014
6:03 AM
Jazz player from my observation may play more on the changes rather than using the blues scale.
The stylist things like growls, bend up and down, little
quarter tone shadings etc. may not be part of the players style being more interested in an approach that
is based on the line or melodic/harmonic approach and
emotion being secondary.

Here I try to blend playing on the changes with
a blues approach. I took third position chrom
playing based on the minor6 sound that so haunting
and applied it on the changes



Emile
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Kaining
53 posts
Jun 21, 2014
8:29 AM
And yet Coltrane got some pretty unorthodox sounds with his sax. The first that comes to mind is that lasar riffle one on intestellar space.
Diggsblues
1384 posts
Jun 21, 2014
11:25 AM
Yeah in the later Coltrane period he was breaking ground
that jazz players have not gone to yet again imho.
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jnorem
305 posts
Jun 21, 2014
11:32 AM
Here's Charlie Parker playing over some blues changes. It's definitely bebop jazz, not what would be identified as an idiomatic example of a blues song.


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Call me J

Last Edited by jnorem on Jun 21, 2014 11:34 AM
Tuckster
1433 posts
Jun 21, 2014
11:42 AM
That Parker tune sounded bluesy to me. Still a 1-4-5 progression-right? Compared to the jazz with lots of chord changes and different progressions,we blues guys got it made. Of course with blues, it's all about the microtonals and those growls and blue 3rds.
Frank
4596 posts
Jun 21, 2014
11:42 AM
Could "style" also refer to the list below?
Great tune btw Diggs, enjoyed that :)

Delta Blues
Chicago Blues
Piedmont Blues
Country Blues
Folk blues
Blues rock
Jump Blues,
Detroit Blues
Texas blues
Etc, etc blues

Last Edited by Frank on Jun 21, 2014 11:45 AM
1847
1893 posts
Jun 24, 2014
5:58 PM



alberts approach to form... miles davis got nothing on
albert king.... count the bars to this white boy!
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i get a lot of request when i play my harmonica
"but i play it anyway"

Last Edited by 1847 on Jun 24, 2014 6:05 PM
Frank
4648 posts
Jun 24, 2014
7:02 PM
Top this one :)

1847
1894 posts
Jun 25, 2014
8:38 AM
what is cool about the albert king video....
is it is a 14 bar blues, how often do you see that?
at least it starts off as 14 bars
it soon changes to a 16 bar progression.
quite often, when a song has other than a 12 bar progression
an 8 bar or a 16 bar progression, when it is time to solo
the form reverts to a 12 bar section for the solos
examples are, walking by myself 8 bar .....12 bar for the solo
and my babe little walter's 16 bar .......12 bar for the solo
so this is quite different, somewhat out of the box.
there are most likely examples of this song played as a straight 16 bars.
but there is quite the twist here.

not sure if there is any interest here, so feedback is encouraged.

also love that bobby brown song!
everybody's talking all this shit about me
why can't they just let me live.


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i get a lot of request when i play my harmonica
"but i play it anyway"
chromaticblues
1583 posts
Jun 25, 2014
9:31 AM
Watermellon Man is 14 bars. Bars 9 and 10 are just repeated instead of going back to the root key in the 11 bar.
barbequebob
2613 posts
Jun 25, 2014
10:10 AM
Actually, most of the time, including both by Herbie Hancock and Mongo Santamaria, that's usually a 16 bar blues.

Muddy Waters' Just To Be With You (which Junior Wells recorded on his Delmark LP Hoodoo Man Blues under the title Ships On The Ocean), is a 14 bar blues, and if you're not used to odd or irregular chord progression structures and go into automatic pilot into 12 bar blues, it can be a real problem.

Charlie Parker was probably the first to introduce improvisation based more on the chord changes rather than off the melody or even the groove, and it most certainly had an influence on Little Walter's playing at times.

One thing I should say that too many players often mistakenly believe is that 1-4-5 changes doesn't automatically translate into being blues because there are tons of examples of tunes with 1-4-5 changes that clearly are NOT blues at all.
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Sincerely,
Barbeque Bob Maglinte
Boston, MA
http://www.barbequebob.com
CD available at http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/bbmaglinte
1847
1897 posts
Jun 25, 2014
11:23 AM
another cool thing about that song
it is a one four five, with the addition of a Bb major.... the flatted 3rd.
the more i play it, the more i like it!
great tune for harp.
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i get a lot of request when i play my harmonica
"but i play it anyway"

Last Edited by 1847 on Jun 25, 2014 11:23 AM


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