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Dirty-South Blues Harp forum: wail on! >
Gary Burton-Improv Lecture
Gary Burton-Improv Lecture
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Tuckster
1431 posts
Jun 20, 2014
9:41 PM
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My harp teacher sent me this link. This is a wonderful,extremely informative piece on the art of improvisation. Don't let the jazz slant put you off. What he's saying applies to ANY music. Only the first hour is the lecture.
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Diggsblues
1382 posts
Jun 21, 2014
4:15 AM
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Very interesting. Sounds like the way they do it at Berkley. It's also like Aebersol chord scale application
in those exercises. I think it's easier to see what tonality is made up by the chord changes in the harmony.
Emile
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timeistight
1586 posts
Jun 21, 2014
2:47 PM
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Here are the ten scales he lists, spelled and tabbed for two octaves in second position:
The Modes, from brightest to darkest
Lydian: major scale, #4 (1, 2, 3, #4, 5, 6, 7)
2, 3'', 3, 4', 4, 5+, 5°+, 6+
6+, 6, 7, 7°, 8, 8+, 9'+, 9+
Ionian: major scale (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7)
2, 3'', 3, 4+, 4, 5+, 5°+, 6+
6+, 6, 7, 7+, 8, 8+, 9'+, 9+
Mixolydian: dominant scale (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, b7)
2, 3'', 3, 4+, 4, 5+, 5, 6+
6+, 6, 7, 7+, 8, 8+, 9, 9+
Dorian: minor scale with major 6 (1, 2, b3, 4, 5, 6, b7)
2, 3'', 3', 4+, 4, 5+, 5, 6+
6+, 6, 6°+, 7+, 8, 8+, 9, 9+
Aeolian: natural minor scale (1, 2, b3, 4, 5, b6, b7)
2, 3'', 3', 4+, 4, 4°+, 5, 6+
6+, 6, 6°+, 7+, 8, 8'+, 9, 9+
Phrygian: minor, b2 (1, b2, b3, 4, 5, b6, b7)
2, 3''', 3', 4+, 4, 4°+, 5, 6+
6+, 6', 6°+, 7+, 8, 8'+, 9, 9+
Locrian: minor, b2, b5 (1, b2, b3, 4, b5, b6, b7)
2, 3''', 3', 4+, 4', 4°+, 5, 6+
6+, 6', 6°+, 7+, 7°, 8'+, 9, 9+
Other scales for dominant chords, brightest to darkest
Lydian Dominant (1, 2, 3, #4, 5, 6, b7)
2, 3'', 3, 4', 4, 5+, 5, 6+
6+, 6, 7, 7°+, 8, 8+, 9, 9+
Altered scale (1, b2, b3, ♮3, b5, b6, b7)
2, 3''', 3', 3, 4', 4°+, 5, 6+
6+, 6', 6°+, 7, 7°, 8', 9, 9+
Half-whole diminished (1, b2, b3, ?3, 4, b5, b6, ♮6, b7)
2, 3''', 3', 3, 4+, 4', 4°+, 5+, 5, 6+
6+, 6', 6°+, 7, 7+, 8'+, 8+, 9, 9+
Apologies in advance for the inevitable typos.
Last Edited by timeistight on Jun 21, 2014 9:24 PM
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Diggsblues
1385 posts
Jun 21, 2014
6:45 PM
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I find relating back to the root major a bit tedious.
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Tuckster
1434 posts
Jun 22, 2014
6:05 AM
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Notice he mentions not thinking about the modes when he plays. He's incorporated it into the subconscious part of his brain. Of course,when you see him run through the various scales,you know he's put in a lot of practice time.
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1847
1881 posts
Jun 22, 2014
3:28 PM
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don't jazz guys use the blues scale?
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i get a lot of request when i play my harmonica
"but i play it anyway"
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timeistight
1587 posts
Jun 22, 2014
5:42 PM
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Sure they do! In fact, they use a couple of blues scales; there's a whole book about how:
There a lot of scales that many jazz players use that Burton didn't mention: harmonic minor, melodic minor, various pentatonic and hexatonic scales, the various eight-note "bebop scales". Maybe he doesn't use them.
Last Edited by timeistight on Jun 23, 2014 1:58 AM
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The Iceman
1760 posts
Jun 23, 2014
4:17 AM
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Scales are just note choices that steer you in a effective direction depending on the musical situation.
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The Iceman
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timeistight
1589 posts
Jun 23, 2014
10:35 AM
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"don't jazz guys use the blues scale?"
Thinking about this, I realized that Burton is teaching Chord/Scale theory here -- he was educated at Berklee, after all.
In Chord/Scale theory, scales consist of chord tones -- the 1, 3, 5 and 7 of the current chord -- plus "available tensions" -- the 9, 11 and 13 that work over that chord. For example, playing D dorian over a Dmin7 chord, D, F, A and C are the chord tones and E, G and B are the tensions.
Blues scales, which you typically play over more than one chord in a progression, don't really fit into this scheme.
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1847
1885 posts
Jun 23, 2014
3:50 PM
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i have decided to take some of these scales as a challenge. mostly when i look at tablature
it gives me a headache.
so the first scale i chose, is aeolian
i can get the upper octave, not too hard
but the lower octave,i may need a joe spiers custom, to get the 4 ob, that is a tough one there.
the mixolydian does not pose to much of a problem.
thanks for posting them, that is a great lecture.
i like that kind of video.
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i get a lot of request when i play my harmonica
"but i play it anyway"
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robbert
330 posts
Jun 23, 2014
4:12 PM
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Wow, that was a lot of information, and very interesting.Thanks for posting!
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SuperBee
2085 posts
Jun 23, 2014
4:41 PM
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Yes, thanks. I enjoyed the questions and answers too
Last Edited by SuperBee on Jun 23, 2014 4:43 PM
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Jehosaphat
758 posts
Jun 23, 2014
10:04 PM
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My brain starts to ache when i read that sort of information.
Like a lot of them there is only 1 (or two) notes difference?
Do you really need them to play Blues?
I am not being facetious here at all..just truly astounded at the depth some of you guys delve into theory.
And impressed too I guess..the Blues harp has come a long way since i started .
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timeistight
1593 posts
Jun 23, 2014
11:27 PM
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"Do you really need them to play Blues?"
No, of course you don't, not for traditional blues, anyway. I bet Jason Ricci uses all these scales and more, though.
You probably need them to play jazz, although, as Burton says in the video, you can learn to play them by ear without learning the names.
That's all theory is
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The Iceman
1766 posts
Jun 24, 2014
5:37 AM
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"Do you really need them to play Blues?"
Why not add a note here or there to give you more choices?
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The Iceman
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Michael Rubin
903 posts
Jun 24, 2014
6:10 AM
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My post is about blues, not about jazz blues or jazz in general.
I think of blues as fully chromatic, meaning I can use any note in any key.
However, I definitely see these scales as the most useful:
Blues scale 1 b3 4 b5 5 7b
Minor pentatonic 1 b3 4 5 b7
Mixolydian 1 2 3 4 5 6 7b 8
Dorian 1 2 3b 4 5 6 7b 8
Bebop 1 2 3 4 5 6 7b 7 8
Mostly I play scales as they relate to the root key. If I am in the key of G, I play with all these scales
as though the entire song were played on a G7 chord, even when the C7 or D7 chord is played (or other chords in more advanced blues).
Notice I already am using every scale tone except for b2, Ab and b6, Eb. That's a pretty wide range of things to do.
When I feel like it, I play these scales as it relates to the C7 chord. The b3 in C is Eb. So during the IV chord I allow for a b6.
Then I play these scales as they relate to the D7 chord (or any chord in a more advanced blues). The 5b in D is Ab. So during the V chord I allow for a b2.
Of course, if I hear a b6 or a b2 elsewhere, I go ahead and play it. I try and just play what I hear in my head, but also what my body tells me to play and also just make sounds on the harmonica, listening to the sound in relation to the rest of the music and choosing whether to stay on the note based if I like the sound or not.
I definitely do not screen my note choices, for example, if I hear 6 bend in cross harp during the one chord, my brain definitely doesn't say "STOP! That's a b2! That won't work here!" I just play it.
But practicing these scales has enabled me to get faster with my muscle memory and hear these notes more often. It also enables me to analyze blues solos and notice that these scales are pervasive in blues music and see how others use these notes, even if they are not scale-centric.
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Tuckster
1436 posts
Jun 24, 2014
8:27 AM
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1847- Middle octave Aeolian(4th position)needs no OB,but it does start as a whole step bend on the 3 hole.
3" 3 4B 4D 5B 5D 6B 6D
It's easier to learn and hear if you do it descending starting on 6D
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1847
1889 posts
Jun 24, 2014
8:59 AM
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yes a C harp in Am no overblow needed
however the example above is G on a C harp
that is what is so cool here.
you can get that scale in cross harp.
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i get a lot of request when i play my harmonica
"but i play it anyway"
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Tuckster
1437 posts
Jun 24, 2014
10:27 AM
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Oops. blame my poor reading skills for that one. I wondered why those scales didn't make sense to me. My eyes looked at the scales and failed to read they were all in cross harp. Cool exercise!
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mr_so&so
841 posts
Jun 25, 2014
10:29 AM
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Thanks Tuckster, interesting to hear a real music-school lecture. To my surprise, I understood a bunch of it. I always look at what YT suggests after I watch a video, and started watching some more.
I've always been a big Steely Dan fan, so started watching this one too. Again to my surprise, there is much talk about 12 bar blues structure and sensibility in this.
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