Frank
4515 posts
Jun 13, 2014
4:09 PM
|
Do you think he is (lipping or TBing) the lick that starts at 1 min 17 sec and ends at 1 min 21 sec ?
Last Edited by Frank on Jun 13, 2014 4:10 PM
|
tmf714
2556 posts
Jun 13, 2014
4:51 PM
|
I would say TB-but hard to tell for sure-I suspect Walter would be the only one who really knows.
The two embouchures were indistinguishable with Walter and many others.
There in lies one of the keys of a truly great harmonica master-
Last Edited by tmf714 on Jun 13, 2014 4:51 PM
|
Frank
4518 posts
Jun 13, 2014
4:57 PM
|
That passage is a thing of beauty either way :)
|
jnorem
268 posts
Jun 13, 2014
5:12 PM
|
Neither, I think - I say that because I've always played it single-hole pucker, except for that double-stop.
It's amazing; just those four little seconds is all that's needed to put LW above and beyond the rest.
----------
Call me J
|
Frank
4520 posts
Jun 13, 2014
5:45 PM
|
lipping is pucker -
J...do you have a version of the tune you could possibly share? Or anyone else for that matter...
It's cool hearing how players approach the licks in this tune :)
Last Edited by Frank on Jun 13, 2014 6:03 PM
|
Piro39
68 posts
Jun 13, 2014
5:54 PM
|
Without a doubt the greatest harmonica instrumental that was ever recorded. I bought the record when it first came out on 78, I was around 15 years old at the time and it totally hypnotized me. I listened to it for many years and it had a very deep effect on me so much so that I had to attempt to learn this instrument. It still deeply moves me 60 years later.
|
Frank
4521 posts
Jun 13, 2014
6:12 PM
|
I learned a sweet version of it done by Steve Cohen around 10 years ago and haven't played it in eons, but recently got a BT to practice it with and Dave Barrett has a transcription of the tune that is strickly awesome...so, I am messing with Walters version now and having a good time playing it...Once i get my video stuff set up again - I'll do a take in the Centipede Saloon and get it on you tube for sheits and giggles :)
Last Edited by Frank on Jun 13, 2014 6:16 PM
|
groyster1
2622 posts
Jun 13, 2014
6:56 PM
|
piro you are pretty close....if LW never did vocals but harp instrumentals he would still be coltranes equal on harp vs saxIMHO
|
jnorem
269 posts
Jun 13, 2014
7:46 PM
|
@Frank - I've never recorded myself playing "Roller Coaster"; never recorded myself at all, really. I started out in the late 60's, playing in a couple of blues bands before I was twenty. I never knew any harmonica playing terminology, I've always called my approach a pucker embouchure, mixed with some tongue-blocking. Back then harp players were on their own.
Which was kind of cool, actually.
So all I can do is talk about how I ended up playing the Little Walter cannon, or really how I mimicked it.
----------
Call me J
Last Edited by jnorem on Jun 13, 2014 7:48 PM
|
Moon Cat
416 posts
Jun 13, 2014
9:39 PM
|
I believe he is Lip Pursing/puckering there and I've heard Kim Wilson and Hummel say the same. LW did whatever was needed, check Kim's interview on Dave Barrett's site where Kim talks about techniques he lip purses and why he thinks LW, Junior Wells and others did the same often.
----------
www.mooncat.org
|
Kingley
3598 posts
Jun 14, 2014
12:41 AM
|
I tend to agree with Jason. I suspect Walter is lip pursing there too. However I can't help but think does it really matter. I suspect that Walter would never have gotten hung up on whether he was lipping or tongue blocking in places and just did whatever he felt was needed at the time for any particular song. I don't see the point in getting hung up over what embouchure is used or to use, surely it's better to just play the damn thing.
|
Frank
4522 posts
Jun 14, 2014
3:57 AM
|
99.9 % of Walters music just melts in my mouth when TBing and it is really cool when you hit a spot where it feels like he switches embouchures - hell, he could be doin a (u-curl) there too...I love talkin about what players think Walter is doin, it fascinates me to no end! Hope more folk who love this type of discussion give their view...thanks a lot for your professional opinion Jason :)
Here is a stiff version of "backtrack"... I switch to a pucker at at 1 min 54 sec trhu 1 min 57 secs then right back to Tbing so it is a 3 sec switch, Love Walters sense of urgency in this tune :)
Last Edited by Frank on Jun 14, 2014 4:02 AM
|
Frank
4529 posts
Jun 14, 2014
8:45 AM
|
I personally side with the camp that believes that LW used any and all embrochures he could muster....
That said, here is a view from a well respected Pro Player Bharath Rajakumar on LW's playing that I found on Bluesharmonica.com forum :)
Hey all ,
This is Bharath Rajakumar ... a harmonica player in Montreal
This may be so unimportant that I shouldn't mention it ...
A friend of mine turned me onto the interview with David Waldman recently where David sort of mentions that I said that I could tell when Little Walter was puckering or tongue blocking , and I want to address this for a second ...
First of all I'll say that David Waldman, of all of them alive today still in my books my favorite harmonica player and someone I consider to be a good friend , ... and truly a master like any of the old pre and post war players
On the subject ... I don't actually believe Walter ever puckered , what I probably misconstrued to David when we spoke about it was that Walter would not always use a classic tongue blocking technique , and that in certain moments Walter would leave the classic tongue block position to use his tongue to do other things like D , inward K , or T sounds off the middle forward part of his palate .
Did Walter pucker in my opinion , No , but he used alot of tongue techniques to get various phrases accomplished ... and then resume the classic tongue block ...
I think the general problem with people tongue blocking today is that they don't understand why they are doing it ... they only understand that they are being told to do it ... the resonant harmonics and wide embouchure that tongue blocking gives you naturally, will increase the depth of tone and prevent you from over bending your notes while giving you greater control , and general dispense with the whiny tone of not doing it ... while also allowing you to add punctuation to any given note ( although most people use that too much just to prove they tongue block , which is the wrong reason to do it ) and inevitably end up looking like they are having a stroke ... and not allowing themselves to be as dynamic as they can be , and dynamics is everything ...
so to all watching , and the few who care about my opinion ... Always tongue block ... but don't handicap yourself if youre trying to figure out some amazing things that some of the masters achieved because the photo says place tongue this way pull this way etc etc etc ... tongue blocking has a purpose and understanding it will help you to do it naturally and skillfully ... use your ears , Walter and so many others saw this as an instrument that they would play and make as many beautiful and rich toned phrases with, as possible with any other instrument , with a wide variety of tongue techniques , they didnt restrict themselves to one thought process ...
Thanks
Bharath
Last Edited by Frank on Jun 14, 2014 8:55 AM
|
Harp2swing
128 posts
Jun 14, 2014
5:44 PM
|
Frank, do you know where can I get that Steve Cohen version? (I have the Dennis Gruenling and Mark Hummel versions.)Hadn't heard of Steve before.
|
kudzurunner
4741 posts
Jun 14, 2014
8:00 PM
|
Has anybody published a transcription of Walter's solo on this? It reminds me, as almost no other recording of his does, why, many years ago, I wondered what sort of harmonica he was playing, since the notes he found on his made clear that he certainly wasn't playing my sort of 10 hole diatonic harp. Live and learn.
For me, the genius section is in the 1:31-1:34 region.
Edited to add: Frank, I see that you mention that David Barrett has transcribed this. Please supply a link to whatever book it shows up in, so that folks can buy it if they want.
Last Edited by kudzurunner on Jun 14, 2014 8:05 PM
|
Frank
4537 posts
Jun 15, 2014
2:35 AM
|
I had a version at one time of a live set of music Steve did, it was on cassette - I can't find the dog gone thing - I even wrote Steve trying to get just his version of ROCKER again, but to no avail...I was sent the tape a long time ago from a harp player in Milwaukee after corresponding through Harp-l. I'll put a request on Harp-l to see if that cassette is still around - Steve's version is the best I have ever heard bar none if my memory serves me correctly.
The Link below takes you to Davids "Tip of the day"....(go to tip 4/1/13)...he graciously supplies the link there...For some of you that may not know -- among his many talents Dave is also a Master Transcriber :)
"Rocker" Transcription (Little Walter Instrumental)
Last Edited by Frank on Jun 15, 2014 2:48 AM
|
Harp2swing
129 posts
Jun 15, 2014
4:27 AM
|
Much appreciated Frank, here's hoping the Harp-l request pays off,fingers crossed.
|
tmf714
2562 posts
Jun 15, 2014
7:19 AM
|
|
tmf714
2563 posts
Jun 15, 2014
7:21 AM
|
|
tmf714
2564 posts
Jun 15, 2014
7:25 AM
|
|
Harpaholic
458 posts
Jun 15, 2014
10:31 AM
|
Rollercoaster is not in Steve's Little Walter Tab book, but Rocker is.
Steve actually has three tab books available plus the 101 tips.
Last Edited by Harpaholic on Jun 15, 2014 10:43 AM
|
tmf714
2565 posts
Jun 15, 2014
10:49 AM
|
Leroy Airmaster with Steve Cohen article link which refers to the cassette tape-
It was titled"Leroy Airmaster and Friends Vol 1"-
Leroy Airmaster
Last Edited by tmf714 on Jun 15, 2014 11:00 AM
|
tmf714
2567 posts
Jun 15, 2014
12:35 PM
|
I found a supplier of old cassette tapes -he is checking his inventory -I will keep you posted.
Last Edited by tmf714 on Jun 16, 2014 9:20 AM
|
tmf714
2570 posts
Jun 16, 2014
9:22 AM
|
I have procured the tape and should receive it in a few days-copies may be available-when I get the tape and play it,I will know more.
|
Frank
4539 posts
Jun 16, 2014
9:41 AM
|
Sorry Adam...I had "Rocker" on the brain for some reason when I wrote that last comment...I'll dig into the "Rollercoaster" transcription ASAP...
Plus...I meant to say Steve's version of :ROLLERCOASTER: >not< "rocker" was on that cassette tape that was absolutely Killer...The whole tape is great - the singer is fabulous too and the harp playing is fresh :)
Thanks Tom - did he say (rollercoaster) was on it? cause if not it is a different tape...
Last Edited by Frank on Jun 16, 2014 9:47 AM
|
tmf714
2571 posts
Jun 16, 2014
9:49 AM
|
He said its the tape from the magazine article I had a link to above-so I am assuming its on there-I will play it the moment I receive it and let you know.
Last Edited by tmf714 on Jun 16, 2014 9:50 AM
|
tmf714
2572 posts
Jun 16, 2014
10:05 AM
|
Here is a link to Steve with Leroy Airmaster-they are still playing gigs in their hometown-some killer harp by Steve=click on the links on his band page!!
http://www.stevecohenblues.com/Leroy-Airmaster.html
Leroy Airmaster
|
Littoral
1105 posts
Jun 16, 2014
8:34 PM
|
Pierre Beauregard did a spot on rendition of Roller Coaster with Powerhouse. Not sure how to find it, except on LP.
|
Frank
4543 posts
Jun 17, 2014
3:06 PM
|
You'll have to contact David Barrett for his transcriptions - he used to have a list of them and gives them away for free with his news letter so subscribe to it if you want that perk...He does not sell them, he did at one time give them as gift options when purchasing merchandise from his site :)
Last Edited by Frank on Jun 17, 2014 3:10 PM
|
tmf714
2612 posts
Jun 23, 2014
1:36 PM
|
Just received Leroy Airmaster featuring Steve Cohen on harp-
Side 1: Shotgun
Eyesight To The Blind
Baby I Love You
My Little Girl
Dead Presidents
Rollercoaster
Side 2:
Look Over Yonders Wall
Sweet Home Chicago
Feel So Bad
Bring It On Home
The Stumble
Never Make A Move Too Soon.
Last Edited by tmf714 on Jun 23, 2014 1:36 PM
|
Frank
4637 posts
Jun 23, 2014
1:52 PM
|
I think Steve may have been peaking at the time of that performance :)
|
