mac1012
36 posts
May 19, 2014
10:58 AM
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well i havejust had a great time jamming to some blues backing track i downloaded some of the harmonica club of huntington one in particular was good it is called dust my broom 12 minute version , i know the title isnt very inspiring but a really good twelve bar blues basic track i set myself in second position and of i went started just dong some basic scale riffs and bending and improvising i wasnt always clean on a single hole but it didnt seem to matter in fact some of the time a 2 hole draw whilst dropping my tongue sounded pretty cool i put my ipod through an amp and used a vocal mic i have not ideal the head on the mic is big but i was able to cup and hold it ok i played through 3 times kind of lstening to where the track was going i coluldnt tell you half the things i did but had a blast and was pleased the way it sounded and really enjoyed bending the notes want to learn some more techniques but i think i am hooked on the blues
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JInx
776 posts
May 19, 2014
11:26 AM
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Careful with those backing tracks, people are getting carried away with them. The backing track development seems to be fostering the idea that the blues is wailing away for 5 minutes like a zombie hunting chasing a meal. Really, there is nothing more boring then endless 3 chord 12 bar soloing. Leave that to the jazzers and study the blues, cause it aint that.
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Sun, sun, sun
Burn, burn, burn
Soon, soon, soon
Moon, moon, moon
Last Edited by JInx on May 19, 2014 11:28 AM
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mac1012
37 posts
May 19, 2014
11:35 AM
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not sure where you read i was endless 3 chord twelve bar soloing in my post ? or wailing away for 5mins unless it was a generalisation and you werent meaning me maybe you were reading something else 8-)
whatever it was it was it was more than three chords for 45mins and i really enjoyed it , next you will be telling me bending a note isnt the blues
but thanks for the encouragement
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mac1012
38 posts
May 19, 2014
11:42 AM
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and to clarify i wasnt following the melody up and down as i agree that would be boring i cant explain what i did but i was improvising a lot and playing off the melody line but whatever it was it was fun
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JInx
777 posts
May 19, 2014
11:52 AM
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no, yeah sorry. I'm just talking about backing tracks in general. In the old days people played to a song, not the generic prefab cookie cutter package of today. If you like it go for it, a lot of people do.
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Sun, sun, sun
Burn, burn, burn
Soon, soon, soon
Moon, moon, moon
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mac1012
39 posts
May 19, 2014
12:29 PM
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ok no worries its actually quite a good track for practice its not just an endless cycle there is lots of instruments coming in and out and has a good rhythm with variations its more like a song than a repeat 12 bar but it has the twelve bars in it if you get what mean have a listen
but hey what do i know i only a beginner but it sounded bluesy what i was doing i really enjoy bending the notes down
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JInx
779 posts
May 19, 2014
12:51 PM
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maybe i'm just old school. it does seem to be an element of the "modern blues" genre....lots and lots of multiple chorus solos. solo is king, song is servant.
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Sun, sun, sun
Burn, burn, burn
Soon, soon, soon
Moon, moon, moon
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rogonzab
558 posts
May 19, 2014
1:09 PM
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I feel your pain JInx!
Yeah, there is nothing more boring than a blues band where every song has a solo for EVERY instrument.
I dont know if the BT culture is behind that type of music, I think is more like the way everything works right now (individualism, competition and so on)
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mac1012
40 posts
May 19, 2014
1:39 PM
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there werent any solos on the track i was using just a nice mix of instruments that made the track more of song what would you suggest i play along to ? i am quite happy to play along to songs if you can point me in the right direction
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clyde
370 posts
May 19, 2014
3:02 PM
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BT?
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JInx
780 posts
May 19, 2014
4:30 PM
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What should you play along to? Well, if you prescribe to the modern blues aesthetic, a 12 minute BT may indeed
serve you well. For my take on the blues, your own toe tap would serve you better.
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Sun, sun, sun
Burn, burn, burn
Soon, soon, soon
Moon, moon, moon
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Mirco
170 posts
May 19, 2014
6:03 PM
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BT must be backing track.
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clyde
371 posts
May 19, 2014
7:57 PM
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Thanks, it was the culture part that threw me.
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MindTheGap
447 posts
May 19, 2014
11:53 PM
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mac - Thank you for posting your joy. A key ingredient to learning an instrument is to enjoy it. Heaven knows there are enough frustrations. And if you've found something that does that for you, I would keep doing it. I expect you'll find other things along the way too. It's no good waiting for the enjoyment to come along in one year, two years, ten years. You have to enjoy it NOW. The simple pleasure of bending a note along to a BT is not to be denied.
Unless of course this is not a hobby for you but you are aiming to make a living out of it.
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mtg
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mac1012
41 posts
May 20, 2014
12:26 AM
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I guess I am a little confused now as to what I should be doing all I know is i was playing riffs around the.blues scale playing off the.melody not along with it I was bending and overblowing in the riff I was improvising with bends sustaining them with throat vibrato some hand cupping effects and a bit of wailing etc etc etc its a hobby maybe street busker one day everybody seems keen to tell me what I shouldn't be doing what is the dark mystery of what you think I should be doing I didn't realise a 12 min.backing would evoke such emotions and people who do.use them on.here seem reluctant to stick their head above the trench I have seen some for sale on.here by Adam so hopefully what I am doing isn't such a big sin
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MindTheGap
449 posts
May 20, 2014
12:44 AM
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mac, you'll discover that all kinds of things provoke strong emotions here. Overall I think that's good but it can be a bit unsettling at first.
Using BTs as a learning tool is completely conventional. You'll hear some great playing posted here played along to BTs.
One set of BTs that people use a lot is Jimi Lee's GrooveTrax http://www.jimileeband.com/jam_tracks 'Every Groove a Bluesman Needs to Know'. These have examples of all the 'standard' grooves you might come across and can help your rhythm education.
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mtg
Last Edited by MindTheGap on May 20, 2014 12:53 AM
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MindTheGap
450 posts
May 20, 2014
12:52 AM
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...as an example, I make no apologies for drawing attention to this again. Listen, playing along to a BT and it goes on and on with inventive twists and turns.
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SuperBee
2003 posts
May 20, 2014
2:34 AM
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Well yeah, it's hardly 'everyone'; really only Jinx firing up about a particular thing that gripes him. It's only one man's opinion and it's not even really about you or anything you're doing mac.
Heaps of people jam along to backing tracks. I personally never found it appealing but I certainly do use backing tracks for practice.
What you're doing sounds about right. If you enjoy it, like MTG says, it's right. Sounds like you're familiarising yourself with the form and a scale and applying some technique. What's wrong with that?
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Frank
4306 posts
May 20, 2014
8:28 AM
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As aspiring students of the musical arts we are all our own worst enemies when it comes to how we approach playing/participating with in a song...
Blaming using backtracks on a musicians shortcomings isn't the answer...the backtrack ain't the problem!
There are many so-called "musicians" who falter terribly in many ways when playing solo as well as with bands.
It's a players lack of musical ingenuity and musical intelligence that is at the heart of over playing, under playing, and all other problems that frequently rear their ugly heads.
When a player is not paying attention to the complete and overall dynamics that make a tune a truly finished product, the song is going to suffer - So again, backtracks are tools for the player to get their act together.
If a player makes sub par music while using a GREAT backtrack, then whats to blame for the horrible outcome - the BT was great, so what made the song in the end lousy... the player who added their 2 cents to it, right?
Making good, let alone great music, is not an easy feat - regardless of whether you are tappin your foot and playing solo or playing with a band or to a backtrack.
To do music right and to do it justice takes a lot of discipline, that truthfully, most of us amatures don't possess.
Moral to the story -- Look in the mirror when musical incompetence is hounding you. Using the excuse it's a backtracks fault or whatever your pointing a finger at will most likely keep you blinded to your own many musical shortcomings.
Last Edited by Frank on May 20, 2014 8:31 AM
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JInx
781 posts
May 20, 2014
10:19 AM
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I see a trend in "modern blues" to treat the song as merely a framework to support the individual soloist. This is a shift in the functioning dynamic a blues. Everyone wants to be a Jimi Hendrix/Albert king/etc, and this just can't be. Most people just don't have that much to say.....But, everyone can play a song. The "song" will get you through. A 12 minute backing track fosters the wrong dynamic....(only my opinion!) As I said, lot's of guys love this style.
If guys want to solo endlessly well then, from a listeners perspective, maybe they should open up more. Get into jazz, where the harmonic development in the tune is substantial enough to support all that blowing.
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Sun, sun, sun
Burn, burn, burn
Soon, soon, soon
Moon, moon, moon
Last Edited by JInx on May 20, 2014 10:20 AM
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dougharps
616 posts
May 20, 2014
1:49 PM
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My opinion:
Long solos gained popularity with the British blues-rock invasion and eventually became a jam band thing. It has even spread to the bluegrass/newgrass genre jams. Old time music doesn't accept this.
Extended and multiple solos have their place, but it is not traditional blues... as blues was recorded.
BUT - if the crowd is dancing and enjoying the groove, you don't cut it short just because the record did.
Historic recorded blues were time limited due to the radio format and limitations of the recording technology of the time. Live blues was a party, and you don't cut a song short if the dancers are on the floor just because a record was short. Don't over indulge in protracted solos. Take turns, trade off lines in call and response, etc. But keep the party going within reason.
Backing tracks are a learning tool to practice and build chops. They aren't designed for teaching restraint and playing songs with others in a band. I didn't learn using tracks, but I see no problem with players using them, so long as they don't expect the same solo lengths when playing in a band.
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Doug S.
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tookatooka
3655 posts
May 20, 2014
2:08 PM
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I use backing tracks because it's all I have. The only problem I found was that some were so long it became difficult to dredge up enough improvisation to fill the time. I countered that by shortening the tracks to under three minutes which keeps them from being boring when playing with them.
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SmokeJS
248 posts
May 20, 2014
3:26 PM
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When I use backing tracks I don't try to solo continuously. Sometimes I sing a chorus and that always makes my harp solo sound great. Other choruses I imagine someone else is singing or soloing and it's my job to accompany. For that I particularly like a jam track with drums, bass and either guitar or piano so there's plenty of space to provide harmonic accompaniment when the guitar or piano is soloing. So my suggestion is that backing tracks, if judiciously chosen, can provide a simulated live experience and aren't necesarily just a place to solo. Not much feedback of course but the other players come to my home, are always on time, are terrific players who work tirelessly to play solidly for me as the bandleader, keep their volume levels where I'm comfortable, and don't drink my beer or smoke.
Last Edited by SmokeJS on May 20, 2014 3:27 PM
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Frank
4309 posts
May 20, 2014
6:37 PM
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A thoughtful, openminded musician can use Bt's for many learning purposes and experiences...
A players own lack of imagination is what would limit their ability to use a BT for learning restraint when playing.
Their own lack of vision would prohibit them from using Bt's to learn many good habits that are required when playing with a live band.
Using Bt's are for students a type of "rehearsal" for how they will respond in a live situation.
Learn to play with restraint using Bt's and you will be inclined to do so when playing with others.
Practice with Bt's to get familiar with songs and grooves and get good at thoughtfully improvising with in them and you will have prepared yourself when playing live with others.
We play live according to how we practice and rehearse.
There are multiple learning opportunities to squeeze out of Bt's that will prepare a player for live encounters with others.
Bt's are a very powerful tool for encouraging the curious musician to become competent in many important ways.
Yes, live participation is the ultimate playground for sharing your music with others - but, if you didn't do your homework, all you'll be sharing is your musical immaturity and self induced bad habits.
Bt's can help make you a much better musician, when used with that goal in mind - it's a beautiful thing, whats not to love:)
Last Edited by Frank on May 20, 2014 6:44 PM
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kudzurunner
4706 posts
May 20, 2014
7:20 PM
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The argument that jinx is making--that blues used to be more about the song and less about the solo--is one that has some currency among people who contrast the black blues scene of the 1950s (for example) with the post-1960s blues scene, dominated by non-blacks. I generally agree with it. The rock-thing has become part of the modern-blues-thing and the long solo is a part of rock.
But it's important to remember that both Cream and the Allman Brothers were very influenced by, and listened to, jazz. That's one clear influence on extended rock-blues solos: jazz.
Also, some black blues players in the 1960s were all about extended solos. B. B. King occasionally played very long solos. (And jazz-indebted they were.) Albert King, Albert Collins, Freddie King, and Buddy Guy played long solos. Guitarism was very much their thing. So it won't do to blame "modern blues players"--meaning folks from right now and the recent past--for ruining blues, for putting all the focus on the solo. That's been going on for a long time, and jazz is a part of what made it happen.
The rise of the long playing record had something to do with it, too.
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Joe_L
2477 posts
May 20, 2014
7:23 PM
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Personally, I am not a fan of backing tracks. I think most beginning players would benefit from doing what a lot of players from the previous generation did. Play along to records. It helps a person learn the language of the music. One thing that I notice among beginning players is that they don't learn the stuff the classic players did.
Studying recordings would help many players improve. Learning what fits where would benefit many beginning players.
If a person is going to play blues, it really helps if they listen to blues and have a passion for the genre. It is pretty easy to know who loves the music when they play and who doesn't.
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The Blues Photo Gallery
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1847
1807 posts
May 20, 2014
9:42 PM
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i just listened to shoblues backing track... my babe
it has all the parts except the vocals and the solo
you could play the intro..sing the verses ... play a solo... sing a verse
play the outro.
it is like being in the studio with a band... am i missing something?
is that somehow bad for you?
it's easy to play along to a record, where there is a harmonica part to guide you.
can you play the song note for note without it?
can you come up with something thats sounds interesting?
you have creative license.
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i get a lot of request when i play my harmonica
"but i play it anyway"
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mac1012
43 posts
May 21, 2014
12:10 AM
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1847 I think it was more about backing tracks that go round in a continous loop you know just a 12 bar rhythm that it can lead to overkill and bad habits not really learning how to interpret a song and use refrain the one I use is 12 bar but it isn't just an endless rhythm I would argue some merits for it such as well just practice but also coming in and out trying different licks and some riffs listening for the chord changes and getting used to improvising for a begginer like me you do have to be careful that you don't just start going along to the melody in a bland way I have to work at keeping it interesting what you are describing is the next best thing to having a band apart from foot tapping
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jbone
1625 posts
May 21, 2014
4:39 AM
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I'm old school as well, there were no backing tracks when I was coming up. We walked up hill to school both ways and had to lick the streets clean for our supper!
Kidding aside, if you need something to get the mechanics of playing along down, tracks are probably a good tool. For me hearing my heroes doing those famous harp parts- not just solos but parts like Walter did with Muddy, in the background but totally a part of the overall uniqueness of the song- Or SBII totally controlling the harp and his vocals and the band, seemingly without conscious thought- these are the kinds of things which spurred me on.
Once you get the mechanics down then you begin to add everything you know to a part and you learn as you go. I will say this though: The sooner and the more you play with other, better musicians than you are, the more challenge you take on, that's the more you will progress as a player. It's like using a speed bag and then sparring with a partner. The bag don't hit back but with a partner you have to be much more on your toes!
I began hitting jams and getting on stages probably before I was "ready". I may have annoyed some musicians as well. But they let me keep coming back and the time came when I was actually invited to be a part of a band. Again when I didn't feel ready, but I said yes anyway and moved forward. If you get the basics down halfway, then challenge what you know and become open to learning what you don't, if you keep a student mindset and keep working on stuff, you wake up one day having aha moments at every turn. You hear yourself doing stuff you didn't know you even knew! But you work for it, all the time, every chance you get.
The tracks I like are complete songs with the harp part missing but with room for solos and space for accents and fills. Other than that playing along with my heroes for a time and then hitting the streets was the way I went. I also learned pretty early that if I could sing I could lead the band.
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http://www.reverbnation.com/jawboneandjolene
https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100000386839482
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wa7La7yYYeE
Last Edited by jbone on May 21, 2014 4:47 AM
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Frank
4317 posts
May 21, 2014
5:53 AM
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Here I'm using a BT to practice lip blocking, since I'm a tongue blocker it's a good exercise :)
Practice different approaches to the norm of how a tune is played :)
You can practice singing too,I need a lot of practice there :)
You can practice standards :)
Practice your 3rd pos ideals :)
Practice with your low harps :)
Practice a standard BT - this case, the Bt is a shoblues he made for the song "mean old world"...I'm using it to practice improvising my thoughts with :)
Practice your chrome work to Bt's :)
Use em to pretend your Muddy Waters :)
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Dragonbreath
7 posts
May 21, 2014
5:41 PM
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I just have to say that the tiltle "dust my broom" gets me very exited and inspired as "(I belive I'll) dust my broom" is an amazing song and one of the few songs the legendary Robert Johnson recorded.
Also you said you enjoy bending the notes down, and you probably know this, but just to make sure, you get that bluesy sound by bending notes up, starting bent then going up a little.
As far as BT's go I love playing to them as well, generic or not, as well as jamming with my friend who likes to back with simple 12bar blues on his guitar. We probably play the same monotone grind for hours. It's great for practising my skills with the instrument and sure helps me have confidence enough to enjoy playing at blues jams. But I understand (I think) what Jinx is saying. It's like my cooking. I can really whip up a great meal with any ingredients but I could never get a job as a chef at a restaurant because just like with your playing I have no idea what I did. And I'm not a chef because that is something completely different. If you want to serve a classic dish it means knowing the exact ingredients and perfectly preparing the same perfectly composed dish over and over and over again with the same amount of passion and perfection. A great chef knows his classics, then he can make variations of the classics and then maybe even come up with his own future classics. But just because he puts some chili in it doesn't automatically make it mexican, as well as a bend doesn't automatically mean we're playing the blues. And personally I'm gonna continue playing to backing tracks and having fun, but you know, learning the classics and imitating the old masters is also very fun and a great way to practice your skills.
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Frank
4327 posts
May 21, 2014
6:05 PM
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I thought is was obvious that learning from the masters was and is a prerequisite to playing period...
Why there is confusion about using BT's as a helpful rhythm section to practice using the language your learning in a musical setting is strange to say the least :)
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STME58
827 posts
May 21, 2014
10:22 PM
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Backing tracks provide a rhythm reference and a pitch reference, two things that are very helpful in practice.
You could use a metronome and a tuner but it would not be as fun. Matching a pitch by listening is a more useful skill than bringing a note to pitch with a tuner so in some ways, the backing track may be a better tool set than a metronome and a tuner. I practice both ways.
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SuperBee
2015 posts
May 23, 2014
2:48 PM
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amazing...now I can post here...
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