harmonicanick
2156 posts
May 10, 2014
8:48 AM
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I was watching and listening to a harp player at an open mic the other day and I was reminded of the importance of diaphragm breathing.
He was about the same age as me 60ish but his tone was shrill and unpleasant, due to breathing too hard and from the neck.
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Frank
4230 posts
May 10, 2014
9:00 AM
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i'll go a step further and declare that "breathing IS music" :)
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The Centipide Saloon
Tip Your Waiter Please
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Thievin' Heathen
312 posts
May 10, 2014
9:02 AM
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Hey, I could pass for 60ish. I wonder if that was me?
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barbequebob
2547 posts
May 10, 2014
9:12 AM
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That is basically what I've been saying for years!!!
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Sincerely,
Barbeque Bob Maglinte
Boston, MA
http://www.barbequebob.com
CD available at http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/bbmaglinte
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DukeBerryman
377 posts
May 10, 2014
10:07 AM
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I'm finally learning (and practicing) how to sing, and knowing how to breath as a result of playing harp sure is helpful. I just pretend I'm holding a long steady note on the harp.
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Frank
4232 posts
May 10, 2014
10:46 AM
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Breathing is definitely rhythm :)
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Carl
1 post
May 10, 2014
11:51 AM
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I guess this is as good a place as any to jump into Adam's site. Tone and altered notes (after my years of consideration) seem the result of vowel formants causing forced vibration. I make enemies quickly with being so bold. I used to teach this material in general linguistics. I played my first harp 60 years ago. This is extremely technical, and, in the main, fortunately, irrelevant to being a good player. David Barret at the end of his CT scan studies muses, maybe studying formants would be worthwhile, leaving it open. For a quickfix, formants are various frequencies that give vowels their quality. When the vowel formant somewhat matches the note or altered note you want to play, you get control. It's whispering vowels. (See me,"professor carl vowels", youTube, near quarter million hits, see my recent carljweber.com/harmonicaPhonetics/index.html -- might not work on some devices). Nobody in the harmonica world, as far as I know, has ever brought up the subject of formants. So far, for me, the hard part is to find the software that can measure the formants in a harmonica tone. Software, like Wavesurfer, measures vowel formants but the vocal cords signal is required -- a harmonica tone will not work. Anybody with advanced skills or curiosity, I'd like to video chat with.
Last Edited by Carl on May 10, 2014 11:53 AM
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orphan
343 posts
May 10, 2014
1:09 PM
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Welcome Carl! I just looked at your youtube "vowels_001.
This was very enlightening and informative. Quite often when people ask how I make the different sounds they hear me play, I tell them its like talking. But with harp it is talking on inhale as well as exhale and articulating consonants and vowels. Literally making the reeds talk. Hope to hear more from you re:tone and altered notes.
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harmonicanick
2157 posts
May 10, 2014
2:13 PM
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after many years of playing I now only have musos around who can impro,
Every tuesday at the bar i have residence we jam, now, that means just name that key and off we go
I don't need vocals but hey a little bit, mostly its instrumental and mostly minor keys
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didjcripey
740 posts
May 10, 2014
2:54 PM
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While this is essentially true, I think that it could be misleading. By not opening the jaw and the throat cavity, I can still produce thin tone while diaphragmatic breathing
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Lucky Lester
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Littoral
1075 posts
May 10, 2014
3:11 PM
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"Nobody in the harmonica world, as far as I know, has ever brought up the subject of formants."
1977, Pierre Beauregard taught that to me. I've taught iy many times since -for what its worth, which is plenty. It's an excellent/fundamental natural technique for voice so harp tones as well.
Last Edited by Littoral on May 10, 2014 3:12 PM
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tmf714
2534 posts
May 10, 2014
3:57 PM
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Pat Missin covered harp formants in detail around 10 years ago-
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orphan
344 posts
May 10, 2014
4:42 PM
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I agree with harmonicanick about the importance of diaphragm breathing on tone. Perhaps equally important are formants. This is what I found after reading tmf714's post:
http://www.patmissin.com/uncommon/uncommon05.html
When I listened to the sound clip, I was reminded of Iceman's advice about practicing looong single notes. didjcripey is right when he says " I can still produce thin tone while diaphragmatic breathing"
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STME58
807 posts
May 10, 2014
5:45 PM
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I was talking to someone who plays both trumpet and violin the other day. He said proper breathing was just as important to the violin as it is to the trumpet.
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tmf714
2536 posts
May 12, 2014
9:29 AM
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May be true about the violin,but will never affect tone the way it does with harmonica-
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Frank
4236 posts
May 12, 2014
6:35 PM
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Strong versatile face, mouth, neck and other supportive muscles in those general areas are also extremely important for ease of a notes tonal manipulation.
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Diggsblues
1328 posts
May 13, 2014
10:45 AM
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Breathing for violin and classical guitar are more for phrasing. As far as I'm concerned making the harmonica have a singing tone or that of a cello or violin is a life long thing. It can be developed and refined with great control but I think having a good teacher helps a lot.
Emile
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STME58
810 posts
May 13, 2014
1:03 PM
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In doing some research to understand what a "Formant" is, I came across the following site.
University of New South Wales, Music Acoustics
This article says that Sax players must, "learn to tune a strong resonance of their vocal tract to the desired note." If vocal tract acoustics overwhelm horn acoustics on a Sax, I would expect it is also true for a harmonica. On another page in this site they discuss brass players and find less of a connection with vocal tract acoustics.
One of the things that attracts me to the harmonica is the ability to get a wide variety of tone color by changing the oral cavity. I expect that learning to sing properly would help me advance on the harp more quickly.
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groyster1
2599 posts
May 13, 2014
10:16 PM
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least possible breath force=best toneIMHO....
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