LSC
628 posts
May 04, 2014
8:14 PM
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There's been several comments made in various threads that it is impossible, or at best extremely difficult, to gig with a low watt amp in band situations with a drummer. I've disputed this and been told I'm out of my mind, or words to that effect. Lately I've been experimenting with my amp collection to see what may or may not work.
I should mention that my current band consists of a drummer who is a rock player at heart but has bags of technique and plays to the song and the situation. He drops into jazz figures on occasion and plays the most wicked shuffle you ever want to hear not to mention some bad ass funk where he turns the kit inside out. Our keyboard player is also at heart a rock player but again he's pro to the bone and plays to the situation. Our leader, guitarist, and singer is a straight up old school blues/soul guy. The gigs have been restaurants with either an outdoor stage or quite a large room where you take the food to the table yourself and a small honky tonk. No back line is miced anywhere. It's just vocals.
Now my big gun is an SJ Avenger and I have to say it is my favorite amp but is overkill for these situations. So, I started with a Gibson GA-6, 12-14 watts through 1x12. Tone is fantastic but I was surprised when listening to a rough recording that it was too loud in the balance despite only being on about 4-5.
So I tried a National 6422TR , 2x8, 1 6v6. Volume turned to 12:00 on the dial. Again, great tone but I was asked by the sound guy to turn down.
Today I took along a '54 Valco/Oahu, 2x6v6 1x10. Pretty good tone but it sounded a bit anemic. I think the power tubes are on their last legs. Again I only had it on about 10:00 and it was plenty loud enough.
I'd brought along a HarpGear HG1 in case the Valco died, it is almost as old as me, and swapped amps between sets. I'd never gigged with the HG1 and wanted to see what it was like in that situation. It runs 1 6v6 and 1 8" Weber Sig.
Now I admit I put a Kinder AFB in front of the HG! and had dialed up to 10, it goes to 12, but it was terrific. I wasn't sure how much air that 8 was going to push and when I first tried it in the house I thought the tone a bit bright for my taste but pushing the crap out of that 1 6v6 it was amazingly big and the brightness transformed into cut, the good kind. The guys all know me and have heard me with the various amps. They all commented on the little sucker's ability to fill space. I really liked it a lot and as a bonus it's the lightest of my amps. I'll probably experiment with a couple of different tubes I've got. It's easy with no biasing required and I have found NOS RCA just bring an extra degree of quality to the tone.
So I know there are situations, especially open jams, where a HG1 or a Zoo will struggle if not be overwhelmed completely but really, the idea that a Zoo or an HG1 or similar is only good for bedrooms or semi-acoustic gigs is nonsense. I love a big stage and being able to crank up the Avenger and let her rip but there is just as much fun, if you're doing it right with a band that plays music instead of noise, in bringing out these lovely little boxes with great tone. Don't deny it until you try it.
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LSC
Last Edited by LSC on May 04, 2014 8:27 PM
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jnorem
186 posts
May 04, 2014
8:32 PM
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Well, you definitely have a hell of a lot of amplifiers.
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Call me J
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1847
1757 posts
May 04, 2014
9:05 PM
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mr. lsc
What a very poignant, succinctly
Intelligent, insightful, Profoundly
Delightful, honest, real, to the point,
Awareness, you possess.
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i get a lot of request when i play my harmonica
"but i play it anyway"
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Greg Heumann
2706 posts
May 05, 2014
5:20 PM
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Look, its simple. It's all about the ambient noise level and the band sound level. Sometimes you can use a smaller amp. Sometimes you can't. When you get to the 105-108dB range - you can't.
PLEASE DON'T lecture me on how load and unhealthy that is. I KNOW. I'm just stating FACTS based on the REAL WORLD.
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***************************************************
/Greg
BlowsMeAway Productions
See my Customer Mics album on Facebook
BlueState - my band
Bluestate on iTunes
Last Edited by Greg Heumann on May 05, 2014 5:21 PM
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1847
1759 posts
May 05, 2014
6:07 PM
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we will.... we will.... rock you
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i get a lot of request when i play my harmonica
"but i play it anyway"
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walterharp
1374 posts
May 05, 2014
6:20 PM
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lucky you have a band that listens and does not need to turn up too loud.
part of me thinks a big part of what we like from big amps is lost anyway in a loud gig, with the high frequencies being the only ones that cut well anyway. sure it sounds fat and good on the stage, but those low frequencies die fast out in the room.
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Greg Heumann
2708 posts
May 05, 2014
8:29 PM
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@walterharp re: "part of me thinks a big part of what we like from big amps is lost anyway in a loud gig" - couldn't agree more. We're at the mercy of the sound guy.
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***************************************************
/Greg
BlowsMeAway Productions
See my Customer Mics album on Facebook
BlueState - my band
Bluestate on iTunes
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LSC
631 posts
May 05, 2014
10:09 PM
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"Look, its simple. It's all about the ambient noise level and the band sound level. Sometimes you can use a smaller amp. Sometimes you can't. When you get to the 105-108dB range - you can't. "
I like to crank it up as much as the next guy. In fact, we were just discussing yesterday that the residencies we've got are great but restrict us in what we can play. We have to be much more laid back but people do dig it. That's a big part of restaurant gigs, keeping people there. Also we're restricted by law at these venues to 85db.
If we're playing a bar or club of good size or say a festival the drummer is reaching for his preferred heavier sticks, the volume controls on the back line are being moved clockwise with malice of intent and I'm wheeling out the Avenger and doing the happy dance.
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LSC
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LSC
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SuperBee
1954 posts
May 05, 2014
11:42 PM
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85dB. That's interesting to know. Whereabouts is the measurement taken do you know? Is it just an 85dB limit anywhere in the room?
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LSC
632 posts
May 06, 2014
12:37 AM
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@Superbee - For an outdoor venue, 85db when measured at the edge of the property. For an indoor venue there is no limit inside the building.
With outdoor venues there always seems to be that one person living in an apartment on the other side of the parking lot with nothing better to do.
I know personally of one venue where the "one" phoned the police and there wasn't even any band playing. At a meeting with the bar management, the city, the "one" and a couple of other tenants the "one" commented , "I can hear it in my bathroom if I have the bathroom window open." His fellow tenant replied, "So shut the window."
At another the bar owner gave the "one" his cell phone number and asked that he be phoned before the police so he could take care of any problem. The first call he got was the "one" telling him he'd called the cops.
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LSC
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chromaticblues
1570 posts
May 06, 2014
9:33 AM
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If a gig is too loud for my Zoo. It's too loud!
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SuperBee
1956 posts
May 06, 2014
2:55 PM
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Thanks LSC, I understand.
I'd love to be able to gig my small amps. Maybe I will someday. I have so many I could stack them into a 6x8 arrangement...
That would probably be more of a pill than lugging the DeVille around. Almost as bad as being a drummer...
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