STME58
790 posts
Apr 25, 2014
8:23 AM
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I just had some new insight into skill development that I find interesting. So with the zeal of a new convert, I will proceed to bore those of you who learned this long ago and find it quite basic. Hopefully I can explain it in a way that might help someone along.
I have been working on both music and martial arts lately. In both areas I have been noticing that in spite of increased practice and more focused study, I am getting worse! I can hear it in my music and I can see and feel in in my attempts at martial arts. The people around me, who should know better, are telling me I am improving. I thought they were just being kind and encouraging. What I have come to realize, is that my understanding of the topic is improving, so that I can see more clearly the gap between where my performance is, and where it should be. Even though I am doing a little better than I was in the past, I now see how far from off it is, and it seems to me to be worse. The good thing is, I can now work on the problem areas. You can't fix a problem if you can't see it.
There seems to be a cycle of learning. Your skills improve to match your understanding and you feel like you are doing quite well, then your understanding advances and you feel like you suck, even though you are better than you were when you thought you were good.
So when you seem to be getting worse with practice, it may be a sign that your perceptions are improving, this will allow your skills to advance if you keep working at it. Conversely, when you feel like you are better than the pro's, look for, no hope for, a rude awakening! Others around you are ;-)
Last Edited by STME58 on Apr 25, 2014 8:28 AM
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mr_so&so
817 posts
Apr 25, 2014
10:18 AM
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Interesting thought there, STME58. I would look at it this way: my understanding is improving faster than my abilities. To me, that should guarantee that I will always have something to work on, and like you said, I know where my weaknesses are. Or, discover that this is much more work than I had thought, and quit all together.
Edited to add: I've seen it both ways. I keep at the harp, but quit playing golf.
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Last Edited by mr_so&so on Apr 25, 2014 10:21 AM
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BigBlindRay
224 posts
Apr 25, 2014
11:36 AM
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Welcome to the Rabbit Hole...
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The Iceman
1606 posts
Apr 25, 2014
11:48 AM
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It may be time to step back and take a short break...
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The Iceman
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BronzeWailer
1256 posts
Apr 25, 2014
4:00 PM
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I hear you, STME58. I call it the ever-receding horizon. I am pretty sure I am making progress but also realize that I will never be all that I want to be. That is the frustration and joy of learning the harp.
BronzeWailer's YouTube
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Destin
73 posts
Apr 26, 2014
4:42 AM
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I practice both martial arts and harp as well. I work professionally in both the music business as well as the martial arts business. We really need to discuss what your practicing. Also what form of martial art are u doing? There is a lot BS out there.
But if u are spending your time working on the right stuff, you should be advancing.
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MindTheGap
436 posts
Apr 26, 2014
7:37 AM
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STME58 - A very good observation. In other areas (sport) I've seen people give up when a big gap opened up between their expectations and their performance, so it's a dangerous time. Good to be aware of it.
I've also seen the situation where someone has had to take a real backward step in performance (sport again) in order to learn to do something properly. That seems to be particularly hard to bear unless you are very disciplined.
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snowman
66 posts
Apr 26, 2014
9:07 AM
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patience and muscle memory--yr muscle memory is improving with good and bad notes--yr mind is registering 'don't hit that note ,on this song ,at this time'==that why we practice to learn what works and what doesn't==when I began to memorize note layout on harp -I played crappy for awhile -then had a big jump and stared to improve again--I agree with this--[Your skills improve to match your understanding and you feel like you are doing quite well, then your understanding advances and you feel like you suck, even though you are better than you were when you thought you were good]keep it fun--Ps I,m shallow, superficial and maybe indesisive---bot I/m not sure???
Last Edited by snowman on Apr 26, 2014 9:08 AM
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2chops
238 posts
Apr 26, 2014
12:09 PM
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Just give yourself to the process. My martial arts journey began 34 years ago. Still gaining understanding. When I started playing the harp again 5 years ago, it was with the understanding that initial basic progress would be fairly quick. Then the inevitable alternating times of knowing what I want to do being ahead of actual skill. But with diligence the skill does increase. Big thing is to enjoy where you are at. Yet keep on working towards your vision.
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I'm workin on it. I'm workin on it.
Last Edited by 2chops on Apr 26, 2014 12:11 PM
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jbone
1596 posts
Apr 26, 2014
3:26 PM
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So. Your ear is improving faster then your lips? Been there. While it's a really good insight, there are just two ways to go: Since where you are at is seemingly not acceptable, you can either offer those harps to someone on the board here and maybe do more martial arts, or you can keep going forward.
There comes a time when being my own critic was just painful, true or not. I had to tell the committee in my mind to shut the hell up because I'm DOING THIS.
I don't know what kind of regimen you are using to make progress but if you are a student you likely have a set of exercises you use. Also been there and done that. Maybe you need to leave the structure at home and go actually play. Put some crazy stuff on the turntable and play along any way you can. Find some guys at the park and sit in. Hit a jam full of strangers, walk in, brag it up, and then back it up on stage.
I have done all this. It's been part of how I moved forward. Not that I was ever really in the technical side of harp playing for long but the repetition after a time was a rut I was stuck in. I knew in my bones what I wanted to be like. I had to take some chances and move there when the opportunity presented.
I was invited into bands before I was "ready". So instead of begging off I said Yes, here I come! And as I flew by the seat of my pants I began to improve. At later points I returned to the classroom one way or another. I had to get out and find out for real what I needed to know to move ahead again.
I'm willing to bet you are harder on yourself than anyone else can be. Why not find a way to laugh at yourself, and move forward in different directions? You know where home is. Take some side trips and bring some experience back to add into your bag of tricks.
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JustFuya
103 posts
Apr 26, 2014
6:09 PM
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I joined this forum a few months ago when I believed I was a pro level harp player. If you want the wind knocked out of you this is the perfect place to have it done. Being 'best on the block' isn't quite what it seemed and that's a good thing.
Instead of matching my skill with the top professionals I've found comfort in comparing my yesterday ability with today's. I feel that as long as I continue shooting toward the stars I'm aiming in the right direction.
After 6 months of extensive research and very little practice I just added the 6 OB to my munitions. The lesson I learned here is less research + more practice = a better player.
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boris_plotnikov
957 posts
Apr 27, 2014
12:42 AM
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I had the same feeling in first 5-7 years of playing. It's very useful to get yourself a quality digital audio recorder (like Taskam DR-series or Zoom H-series) and record every gig, every band rehearsal and some practice sessions (e.g. playing a tune with playalong). It really will help to get better.
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Excuse my bad English.
My videos.
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Komuso
302 posts
Apr 27, 2014
1:11 AM
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It's how you practice, not how long...
Ditch the 10,000 hour rule! Why Malcolm Gladwell’s famous advice falls short
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Paul Cohen aka Komuso Tokugawa
HarpNinja - Your harmonica Mojo Dojo
Bringing the Boogie to the Bitstream
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STME58
791 posts
Apr 27, 2014
10:09 PM
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As Boris mentioned, recording is a really useful tool to help you improve. I need to do more of it. I am glad I have some recordings as it shows me that I am not really getting worse, my ear is getting better. I can now hear errors in recordings I made a year or so ago that I could not hear when I made them. Mind you, I could hear errors in the recording right after I made it, but I can hear more now.
Self recording is similar to a metronome in that it is so effective at pointing out shortcomings, you have to be brave to use it.
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jbone
1598 posts
Apr 28, 2014
4:27 AM
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So true STME. We sued to say, tape don't lie. It's much better to have a real record of where you are at and find the strength to objectively use that as a tool to improve.
Some people will tell you, you sound great. Some will say nothing. Very few will take the chance to tell you the truth. I've been lucky in that there were a couple of harp players in my past who wanted to see me succeed and helped me early on, even when it meant hurting my feelings. From that though, it became obvious that I needed to have recordings so I could personally do an inventory and base my practice on actual evidence.
I remember a landmark day some 7 or 8 years ago, when I was driving and listening to local radio, and heard some pretty good playing, and realized......that was ME! From a cd I had dropped off months before. That's some good validation there.
In recent months and years Jolene and I have done a lot of videos and I use these to critique as well. Some I post even with bobbles, some we redo. They are a great tool.
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