Mirco
148 posts
Mar 30, 2014
8:33 PM
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I am studying harmonica through David Barrett's bluesharmonica.com. I have reached Level 4 (Yay! Intermediate!) and am attempting the technique of "pulls."
As I understand it, to do a pull:
*slap down on a single note
*while keeping your airflow, pull your tongue off for the resulting chord sound
I have been struggling with this more than I care to confess. I would greatly appreciate you listening to the following clips and letting me know what you think. Does this sound like a pull is supposed to? Am I on the right track?
Edit: I have removed these clips.
Last Edited by Mirco on May 10, 2014 11:35 PM
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SuperBee
1862 posts
Mar 30, 2014
9:17 PM
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Site keeps logging me out. I'll try again later.
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slaphappy
13 posts
Mar 30, 2014
11:32 PM
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Micro, I'm working through the LOA too (working on LOA7). Pulls took me a while before I was more or less happy with how I was playing them. I kept figuring out I wasn't doing them quite right and you refine the technique.. One thing Dave noticed I was doing was "chucking" them on the roof of the mouth instead of using that light suction you need so I had to go back and fix that with keeping my tongue down. Think yawn.
I would say play them a bit lighter and really focus on the pulse and thump of the rhythm. Try 2 bars of quarter note slaps and pulls on draw 4 and breath out on beat 8 and repeat.
Also, learn pull-slaps if you're not already working on them. These really help with your regular pulls too I've found. The Sonny's Bird Artist Study is great for pull slaps.
The technique is so awesome though, part of why I named myself slaphappy. :)
Last Edited by slaphappy on Mar 30, 2014 11:35 PM
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MindTheGap
404 posts
Mar 30, 2014
11:47 PM
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Mirco - Did you have a look at the 'How do you make this sound' thread? People were talking about the difference between percussive slaps/pulls vs 'soft' slaps/pulls. Looks like you can go from very percussive (with the tongue-palate chuck that slaphappy mentions), through glottal or diaphram stop, to fully legato where the air doesn't stop at all. Maybe the latter doesn't count as a slap-pull at all, I don't know.
Yours in Clip #1 I think are more on the percussive side, i.e. the air stops between notes. How are you stopping the air? Is that the sound DB wants you to make in the lesson? V. interested to hear about this.
Have a listen to that Lester Butler track see what you think!
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mtg
Last Edited by MindTheGap on Mar 30, 2014 11:48 PM
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SuperBee
1863 posts
Mar 31, 2014
12:32 AM
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Hey Mirco, I sent you an email because the site kept logging me out as i was halfway through a post.
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MindTheGap
405 posts
Mar 31, 2014
1:22 AM
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Micro, please would you post up SuperBee's reply? As I'm interested in this. Unless it's private of course. Thanks.
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mtg
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SuperBee
1868 posts
Mar 31, 2014
3:41 AM
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MTG, it probably was a bit more sharing than i'd do in a public post...
essentially i think the pulls here in the exercise sound like they're happening ok and i expect will become more natural-feeling to play over time. Ive been playing Gary's Blues fairly regularly now for about 3 years although i just play like me and stopped trying to sound like David a long time ago...
Gary's Blues is a great piece to practice the technique with, and really gets you to understand this is a natural technique following a slap, simple, dont overthink it. as David says, the advice he often would give is simply 'relax'...easy said of course...but i think in this case its appropriate.
the song also teaches that you can do a pull with breath either in or out, and though it seems natural sometimes to do it one way or the other, that is something which requires attention.
i recorded this one about a year ago, just to the imac built in mic...
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MindTheGap
406 posts
Mar 31, 2014
4:00 AM
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Superbee - got it thanks. Yes that does sound nice and relaxed, and that Mirco is on the right track there to my ears. Teachers are always saying 'relax' :-) I think that you can relax when you've worked out what to do.
Useful, thanks. That Box thing works well doesn't it?
BTW congratulations on reaching Level 4!
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mtg
Last Edited by MindTheGap on Mar 31, 2014 4:01 AM
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SuperBee
1871 posts
Mar 31, 2014
4:39 AM
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i like the Box. easy. thanks for alerting me to try it.
i'm working through David's LOA, but ive yet to submit the material for level 3. i want to do all the accompaniment lessons, and the solo stuff, rather than just take the tests. ive done all the songs up to level 6 already, but the accompaniment and improv and such are really pretty cool, so i want to do those in full.
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The Iceman
1565 posts
Mar 31, 2014
7:29 AM
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Don't fixate on the words used to describe the sound...
"pulls", "slaps", etc.
Focus on the sound itself.
When you pull your tongue back and phoneticize "chuck" or "tah", you should start to hear the sound you want.
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The Iceman
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Mirco
149 posts
Mar 31, 2014
5:24 PM
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Wow, thanks for all the input! It's funny how the time zones work out so that I post something before bed, then have so many responses when I get home from work. My overall thoughts are just to keep at it.
@slaphappy: I guess I just need to keep practicing. Is it such a good technique, really? At this point, I feel like it's more a pain in the ass than it's worth. I'll feel differently in a few months. I haven't unlocked that artist study you mentioned.
@MindtheGap: How am I stopping the air? Good question. David Barrett's quite detailed explanation is:
*slap down on a hole (example: the 3+)
*your tongue should now be covering holes 1 and 2, as the 3+ sounds out
*shift your tongue to block the 3 hole also, but keep your airstream going (so there will be no sound)
*pull your tongue off, so the resulting chord will sound
That's what Barrett wants, but the whole shifting of my tongue thing is too tricky for me. It's tough to describe what I'm doing, but my pulls are almost like a really abrupt and percussive flutter. At least, this is what I think is happening.
@SuperBee: Thanks for all the help. I tend to overthink technique when studying David Barrett's stuff, because it's so complete. Your version of "Gary's Blues" is great. Your version is my end goal. Barrett's lessons are great. I haven't found lessons like his on comping anywhere else. I like the artist studies, too.
@Iceman: "Sound" advice. (groan) Articulating sounds is a good idea, but probably beyond me right now.
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MindTheGap
409 posts
Mar 31, 2014
11:59 PM
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Mirco - Yes, I've read about that one. Definitely put in the box marked 'for later' along with tongue switching. I'm not sure that everyone is doing that.
I think that Iceman's chuck or tah i.e. with the back of the throat or back-of-tongue sounds and feels right to me.
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mtg
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SuperBee
1880 posts
Apr 01, 2014
4:35 AM
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i think the tongue doesnt really move all that much...i just push it out a little more really..its kind of a continuation of the slap...the tongue just kind of leans over to the right a bit more.
one way to practice might just be...do the slap...your tongue is on 1 and 2...3 is playing clear...you can feel the bar between one and two on the end of your tongue. if you slide the harmonica tiny bit left, the 3 will stop playing. you may have to slightly close your lips at the same time to stop the 4 coming into play...but if you can shut off the sound by slightly pushing the harp across youre good.
so if you can do that, you can get the same effect by holding the harp still and slightly moving your head...
this is all just about getting the feel for the movement. from there, you might notice that to keep the harp still and move your head, and block the holes, you have to push out a little more tongue.
so, you can push out a little more tongue and not move the harp or your head...just push out a little more tongue and lean it to the right, as if you were gonna run your tongue across the back of your teeth. its just a little push.. if you can put your tongue on the back of your front top teeth and move the centre of the tip from just the back of the left one to the back of the right one...thats enough
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The Iceman
1568 posts
Apr 01, 2014
6:03 AM
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SuperBee...
If this works for you, great. However, I find your explanation way too complicated.
All harmonica technique can be distilled down to very easy minimal movements.
Sometimes the simplest approach works best.
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The Iceman
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timeistight
1541 posts
Apr 01, 2014
9:10 AM
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You have to briefly seal off the face of the harp for the Barrett pull to work.
Try this:
1. Put the harp down and stick your tongue slightly past your teeth.
2. Close your lips around your so there are no air gaps.
3. Quickly pull your tongue back into your mouth.
Hear that little "pft"? That's the pull. If you do the same thing with your tongue closing the holes of the harp inside your mouth you lightly sound the reeds without using any breath.
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MindTheGap
415 posts
Apr 01, 2014
9:20 AM
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timeistight - Ok, thanks for the explanation. Is the 'Barrett Pull' *the* way to do it? Or just *a* way to do it?
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mtg
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timeistight
1542 posts
Apr 01, 2014
10:13 AM
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Mirco's original question was about the technique described by David Barrett so that's what I thought we were discussing.
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The Iceman
1571 posts
Apr 01, 2014
10:33 AM
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Barret's way is "a" way.
There are different approaches. Find one that works for you.
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The Iceman
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MindTheGap
417 posts
Apr 01, 2014
10:36 AM
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Great, thanks.
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Mirco
151 posts
Apr 01, 2014
4:10 PM
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I like the designation "Barrett pull." Too funny.
I feel like I'm getting the hang of it. Really good advice here. Sometimes it actually confuses the issue by thinking about it too much. Iceman made a nice remark when he said to focus on the sound.
If I can get the sound, then no one can really say, "hey, but you're not doing X!" The sound is the goal.
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SuperBee
1885 posts
Apr 01, 2014
8:28 PM
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Yeah, I wasn’t really trying to explain the pull, I just was responding to Mirco’s comment that moving the tongue across was too much to think about. I was just trying to think up a way of understanding how much tongue movement is required to do as dave barrett describes.
But I agree it’s a red herring. I don’t think about that when I use that articulation. In fact I was doing it before I realised it had a name, it’s not something I ever consciously set out to do. Dave Barrett commented to me that I was using the pull technique before I’d even thought of it as a ‘technique’
I expect you are right Iceman. Thinking consciously about moving the tongue is probably a way to make life more tricky
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Mirco
164 posts
May 10, 2014
11:33 PM
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So I've been working on pulls for over a month now, and I've managed to get "Gary's Blues" to a point where I'm pretty satisfied. It's not perfect, and it's something I'll work on more as I continue working on other things.
Thanks for all your help. The pulls are coming along, I think.
If you'd care to have a listen, here's "Gary's Blues". Feedback is always welcome.
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rogonzab
555 posts
May 12, 2014
4:05 PM
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Nice!
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Mirco
166 posts
May 12, 2014
10:13 PM
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Thanks! I'm still working on it, but David Barrett has invited me to play it at his School of the Blues student concert. That's a real shot in the arm for me.
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