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Dirty-South Blues Harp forum: wail on! >
Modern Blues Harmonica & the gigging musician
Modern Blues Harmonica & the gigging musician
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KCBLUES
65 posts
Mar 17, 2014
8:15 AM
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The very recent and contentious thread concerning RICK's new amp and the HG2 started me thinking - well actually it is a thought that I have had for some time but never take the time to share or explore on this board...
Although I certainly cannot endorse the TONE or the entire content of HUMBLEHARP's post, I do think that he raises and interesting point... Not necessarily the "minions" part but that many times on boards like this, people lose sight of the relevance of the instrument in "real life" and on the stage...That is, the thoughts and opinions on message boards can develop a "goupthink" mentality...
Case in point - I played a gig SATURDAY at a somewhat upscale and very busy venue in Downtown Richmond - perhaps one of the most sought after venues in town (good pay and guaranteed to be filled with locals and tourists). Obviously there was plenty of harmonica but I shared the stage with a sax player (for musical variety and interest) and ALWAYS kept my solos short and sweet. In addition, I rarely played true or hard core blues and definitely not too many harmonica centric numbers..
I long for gigs at hard core blues clubs but those days are nearly numbered... I watch jams like RICK's and many of AKI's videos on the WEST COAST and always think to myself - sure would be fun to play those kind of clubs but that music and approach to playing (long soloing and hard core blues) would never work on 99 percent of my gigs...
I guess at the end of the day, I try to always remember that the PUBLIC could care very little about beginning or advance techniques such as overblows and overdraws...it is about the song..and unfortunately these days it is harder and harder to "sell" the blues... Let alone impress a non musical or non-performing public...
As always this is IMHO but I hope to at least offer some perspective from a gigging musician that has lived and played in at least a handful of different cities and regions...
I would appreciate your thoughts - especially from people that play regularly...
Kurt
Last Edited by KCBLUES on Mar 17, 2014 8:16 AM
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KCBLUES
66 posts
Mar 17, 2014
8:43 AM
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...just asking for people to share their thoughts and experiences as a GIGGING modern blues harmonica player...
It seems like an appropriate topic...
Also, many times people post things on message boards that are not actual questions but merely statements or observations that then illicit (or sometimes not) a response...
Hope that helps...
(this was in response to a FRANK comment that seems to have disappeared)
Last Edited by KCBLUES on Mar 17, 2014 8:47 AM
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thorvaldsen76
176 posts
Mar 17, 2014
10:08 AM
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Ok,my thoughts, and since I live in Norway it may be different overseas..
I think many people underestimate the blues. When I started gigging I was told many times how hard it was to get gigs. And a lot of bands tried to play not just pure blues but throw some soul, funk and rock into the mix. But guess what? We actually get lots of gigs. The last couple of years we've had roughly 30 gigs a year. That's pretty much here in Norway. And we get it because we work our ass off with booking. I think too many bluesguys almost give up before they have put down the work. It's almost like they feel sorry for themselves instead of just thinking positive. First of all, you have to believe it yourself..
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KCBLUES
67 posts
Mar 17, 2014
10:22 AM
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I have heard great things about NORWAY - especially for blues. IN fact, friends of mine in two great bands TRICKBAG (sweden) and CADILLAC KINGS (UK) tend to play there a lot...
I do not have a lot of experience touring overseas but playing in Scandinavia I was reminded that people DO love blues :) It was such a joy to have people requesting Sonny Boy and Little Walter tunes... A very appreciative and educated audience!
Glad to hear that you are having success!
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thorvaldsen76
177 posts
Mar 17, 2014
10:33 AM
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Thanks, KC!
Trickbag is a GREAT band! Weston on harp is sensational! Actually, we did two gigs with the singer in Trickbag, Tommy, some weeks ago :)
The old stuff is very popular in Europe, and there are many great traditional bluesplayers here.
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Kingley
3523 posts
Mar 17, 2014
10:33 AM
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"I long for gigs at hard core blues clubs but those days are nearly numbered... I watch jams like RICK's and many of AKI's videos on the WEST COAST and always think to myself - sure would be fun to play those kind of clubs but that music and approach to playing (long soloing and hard core blues) would never work on 99 percent of my gigs…"
Yeah I agree Kurt. I tend to play harp solos quite sparsely during a gig compared to the guitars or keys. I will usually choose a couple of songss that "feature" the harp and let loose a bit in those. In most of the other songs I'll either play a very small amount of harp or none at all. I've found over time that I actually prefer to do that. I feel it makes the harp more prominent when I do play it and also it makes things more interesting for an audience. I keep trying to introduce songs that have no solos in at all (now that really is an uphill struggle with guitarists!) as I feel it will give some more variety to a gig. Also (like yourself no doubt) I will tend to vary between playing acoustic harp, amplified diatonic harp and chromatic harp to mix things up a bit. One of the added benefits of doing things like this is that I have found I appreciate singing even more and keep trying to improve my vocal performances.
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dougharps
580 posts
Mar 17, 2014
10:59 AM
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With regard to people still having an interest in the blues, there is a market for blues in East Central Illinois, but it is a niche market. Local blues bands mix in songs of other genres a little, depending on the venue and audience.
Even among those who like to go hear an all blues act many in the audience would not know Little Walter or Adam Gussow. They might possibly recall Billy Branch, Rod Piazza, Rick Estrin, John Nemeth, or R.J. Mischo, but only because those artists played here on tours. Only real fans of blues harp would remember their names. There are some real blues lovers who know a lot about the blues, and have huge collections. There is a local blues society, Prairie Crossroads. There is a daily afternoon local blues radio show on community radio WEFT, and nearby roots station WWHP has Blue Monday and plays blues at other times, too.
In one band I play almost all blues with a little early rock on occasion. Then I do acoustic gigs that mix in roots rock, country, and folk with blues. In the past I was in a band that played blues based jazz.
I sit in with bands that play all kinds of music. We have an active music scene here. It is a college town with lots of venues, lots of music for a town this size, many musicians, and generally low pay. There are live music fans who go out to hear live music of many varieties, but fans of live music are a limited group. D.J.s draw the dancers of college age more than live music.
The average music listener has trouble telling good harmonica from mediocre, and certainly wouldn't know about overbends. Musicians and serious music fans might notice, but most casual audience members don't know.
This forum may focus so closely on modern blues harmonica and related nuances to the extent that everything seems far more important than it would to non players. But that is true of any special interest forum, and that is OK in my book.
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Doug S.
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Frank
4043 posts
Mar 17, 2014
11:04 AM
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Most of mine disappear KC, I find it interesting you were able to read it before it did - I always thought they were just obliterated instantly...Yeah, thanks for clearing that up, I wasn't sure were to begin. Just gig and let the rest take care of itself, people can tell if your show is a waste of their time or not, if you hit pay dirt, great - if not, move on and try try again :)
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kudzurunner
4608 posts
Mar 17, 2014
11:49 AM
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Kurt, I completely agree with the general direction of your post. Although I love the blues, and harmonica, I love a range of musics and instruments, and I'm galvanized by the challenge of trying to give the public what it wants. At some moments and in some venues, that is straight-ahead blues. Great! I love those gigs. Blues will always be my sweet spot. But I also remember that guys like Robert Johnson prided themselves on being able to play waltzes, polkas, pop tunes, hillbilly tunes, a little bit of everything that was on the radio. I think that some blues aficionados have a skewed conception of what sort of music "blues" players play. Big Jack Johnson played "You Are My Sunshine," for example. Mr. Satan like to play "Bill Bailey Won't You Please Come Home." I never could play that song. He played stuff by James Brown. "I Feel Good" is a blues, but I don't know many harp players who play it. I learned it.
I was listening to "Happy" by Pharrell yesterday, a song my wife loves, and I fell in love with it, too. The video has 121 million hits, so I guess I'm not alone. I know that if I could get even the rudiments of that song into the harp/OMB/guitar format and throw it onto the street, I'd make a shitload of money. People would stop dead. Just get the basics and do the vocal melody on a chromatic harp. You'd kill it.
Not every harp player here has that hunger to cross over, but I think it's an ambition worth having. On my run this morning, I listened to "Deep in the Weeds," two version of "Georgia," and three versions of "Hot Tamale Baby."
Oh, also "Call Me the Breeze":
The Blues Doctors are playing two Louisiana clubs in early May, and the guy who booked us there, Taylor Nauta, is a young southern rock guy. He said, "You HAVE to learn 'The Butt Thing.'" He swears that the song will get any room of Louisianans, white or black, to get up and shake it:
So yes: mix it up!
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barbequebob
2498 posts
Mar 17, 2014
1:13 PM
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Even Little Walter prided himself on his ability to play polkas. Adam, when I was in band with 5 horns and I had to play as part of the horn section, one of the tunes I had to know was that James Brown classic I Feel Good and I HAD to learn all of those horn parts and get the rhythm, time and the inflections EXACTLY right.
Too many harp players are often too lazy to learn even the most basic of melody and want to just do nothing but solos and it puts a major hurt on themselves.
Just learning how to riff alone doesn't make you a great musician by any stretch of the imagination or even a virtuoso for that matter. I've seen so many times where harp players of much lesser technical abilities get across and connect to the audience wheras some players with absolutely amazing technical skills just come across as cold and snooty to an audience because instead of playing to and for them, he's playing at them and/or just trying to impress other harp players and the only time you're ever gonna be playing to an audience that's 95%++ nothing but harp players is at a SPAH convention.
Just relying on technique alone is not enough and it's more important to be able to express the mood and feel and the meaning of a piece than just trying to impress with technique alone.
@Kingley -- What your post also says is in a different way, the ability to use space and too often players of all different types of instruments (harmonica included) never learn how to make effective and expressive use of space in a tune.
The average audience member can't tell much of a difference between a good or lousy player because they've seen 1000 horrible players for every good player they've seen and so many really bad players do so much stuff that gives the instrument a bad name.
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Sincerely,
Barbeque Bob Maglinte
Boston, MA
http://www.barbequebob.com
CD available at http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/bbmaglinte
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Frank
4045 posts
Mar 17, 2014
1:19 PM
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here's a groovy one too :)
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blueswannabe
444 posts
Mar 17, 2014
1:25 PM
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I have found, much to my surprise, that many young people, 18-25, have been very receptive to our music. They have been very complimentary and interested. I think many of them had not heard the music from the original creators and so it is new to them. I have also found that a varied repertoire is essential to holding the interest of the audience. You just can't play the same beat and grove all the time. It all begins to blend in like one song. You need a palate cleanser.
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barbequebob
2499 posts
Mar 17, 2014
1:39 PM
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@blueswannabe -- The last three sentences in your post says it in a nutshell and your band HAS to groove and the band ain't grooving, solos of ANY kind, ESPECIALLY long solos never gets across and bores the crap out of an audience. Unless you're Muddy Waters, you ain't about to get away doing 5 straight slow blues in a row.
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Sincerely,
Barbeque Bob Maglinte
Boston, MA
http://www.barbequebob.com
CD available at http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/bbmaglinte
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blueswannabe
445 posts
Mar 17, 2014
1:56 PM
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"Too many harp players are often too lazy to learn even the most basic of melody and want to just do nothing but solos and it puts a major hurt on themselves.
"Just learning how to riff alone doesn't make you a great musician by any stretch of the imagination or even a virtuoso for that matter. I've seen so many times where harp players of much lesser technical abilities get across and connect to the audience wheras some players with absolutely amazing technical skills just come across as cold and snooty to an audience because instead of playing to and for them, he's playing at them and/or just trying to impress other harp players and the only time you're ever gonna be playing to an audience that's 95%++ nothing but harp players is at a SPAH convention.
Just relying on technique alone is not enough and it's more important to be able to express the mood and feel and the meaning of a piece than just trying to impress with technique alone."
BBQBOB-
Yes to the "Melody" issue 100% and yes to expressing the mood and feel and the meaning of a piece than just trying to impress with technique alone.Also 100%. There might be one or 2 harp players in the bunch. Ignore them (i know that's hard because you are being judged whether you like it or not) and play to the audience. They don't know if you hit the blue third correctly or not. But if they applaud...and you can tell when people like your stuff..you have accomplished your goal.
also, be prepared to deviate from your set list. I find that constant adjusting to the people in the audience works well. The song list should be used as an outline not something that you should adhere to no matter what.
Last Edited by blueswannabe on Mar 17, 2014 2:23 PM
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Frank
4046 posts
Mar 17, 2014
4:40 PM
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here is something a little different you might like to do :)
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slackwater
27 posts
Mar 17, 2014
10:09 PM
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The last four piece I was in folded up about three years ago. We played some stuff that could be called real blues and some that were nowhere near it. Most songs I played at least some harp in, even if it was just background rhythm. Some songs I played none at all because it just felt out of place. There was even a little section where the other three guys got their Pink Floyd rocks off by doing three or four numbers in a row- the drummer would sing those and I would sit that bit out entirely and I didn't care, it meant my second break went for about 45 minutes instead of fifteen.
After that band I thought that I'd get an outfit together to do just blues, it still hasn't happened. Two or three false starts, but that's it. I've been involved in that time as part of two different duo's, neither one is what you'd call full on blues, but it doesn't matter.. I've been doing something.
I've got to be versatile, but maintain my feel. That's the way I see it.
I've gotta say too that I'm not making a living from playing, just part time, and lately, not all that often.
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slackwater
28 posts
Mar 17, 2014
10:09 PM
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The last four piece I was in folded up about three years ago. We played some stuff that could be called real blues and some that were nowhere near it. Most songs I played at least some harp in, even if it was just background rhythm. Some songs I played none at all because it just felt out of place. There was even a little section where the other three guys got their Pink Floyd rocks off by doing three or four numbers in a row- the drummer would sing those and I would sit that bit out entirely and I didn't care, it meant my second break went for about 45 minutes instead of fifteen.
After that band I thought that I'd get an outfit together to do just blues, it still hasn't happened. Two or three false starts, but that's it. I've been involved in that time as part of two different duo's, neither one is what you'd call full on blues, but it doesn't matter.. I've been doing something.
I've got to be versatile, but maintain my feel. That's the way I see it.
I've gotta say too that I'm not making a living from playing, just part time, and lately, not all that often.
I should just add that if I sensed that my playing harp was to lose all relevance with audiences, I'd give up playing to them altogether.
Last Edited by slackwater on Mar 17, 2014 10:15 PM
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Komuso
287 posts
Mar 17, 2014
10:48 PM
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Don't fight the trend!
Nation Demands More Mind-Blowing Guitar Solos
This-> “And it doesn’t just have to be one solo per song. A song could have a whole bunch of solos in it. Maybe the entire song could be a solo! Man, can you imagine how insane that would be? That would fucking rule!”
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Paul Cohen aka Komuso Tokugawa
HarpNinja - Your harmonica Mojo Dojo
Bringing the Boogie to the Bitstream
Last Edited by Komuso on Mar 17, 2014 10:50 PM
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Frank
4049 posts
Mar 18, 2014
5:26 AM
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You might do this one - one of the lines in the song is :I'll suck you like a neck bone girl" :)
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jhallc
7 posts
Mar 21, 2014
6:27 AM
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In the Boston area there are quite a few outlets for the blues. There are plenty of folks of all ages who are looking to hear good music. Being a college "town" doesn't hurt. I turned my nephew, a few years out of college, onto boogie woogie piano and now he's in NYC trying to cut is as musician. "Smokin' Billy Slater" plug and link below.
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ITAdMw-djBM
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The Iceman
1548 posts
Mar 21, 2014
10:10 AM
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In my gigging career, I've found a few truths...
General public loves Mustang Sally for dancing. Instead of rolling our eyes, we should play it with enjoyment. In my case, this meant doing an original arrangement. Mine started with a funky bass line. You don't have to copy the record to make it work.
re:genres, blues for example.
If the band has a groove sound and something unique to offer - stellar vocals w/harmony, a soloist who is compelling, etc., it will get over to most crowds.
Did a duo gig w/accomplished roots/blues musician from Atlanta - Bill Sheffiled. Booking was Thur night in a sports bar w/football game on. We played to the backs of the drinkers at the bar. However, when we nailed the groove and my harmonica solo soared, those guys turned around to watch us.
If your band will offer something that lifts it out of the ordinary, the audience will respond regardless of genre.
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The Iceman
Last Edited by The Iceman on Mar 21, 2014 10:11 AM
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Goldbrick
362 posts
Mar 21, 2014
11:22 AM
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It just all comes down to how much of your income is derived from your gigs. I spent a lotta time working day jobs I didn't like so I could support what I did like to do.
At this point in my life I would rather make a few bucks playing what I like to an audience that wants to hear that type music then spend another night in a wedding/bar mitzvah band unless I am broke and playing with guys I like.
If you want the crowd to come alive-play the Hokey Pokey and Mustang Sally-watch the tip jar fill up.
Bottom line is sometimes you gotta play for the money and sometimes you play for your personal " art"
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Joe_L
2443 posts
Mar 21, 2014
11:55 AM
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I know several people who play nothing but blues and have no day jobs and no wives or girlfriends to support them. They play the music the old school way. The music is either something that you are passionate about or it isn't. If people dig what they do, great. If not, they keep doing it. It's a hard way of life, but I respect them for doing something that they love doing. Read Mark Hummel's book. It's very illuminating.
One of the coolest shows that I ever saw was a Lil Ed and the Blues Imperials show. It was awesome. Too bad for Ed and the band, the audience was just the bartender and me. That's how the blues is at times.
Living in the Bay Area, I see very few, if any, modern blues harmonica payers. When they do show up, they don't typically last long on the scene. They tend to be very frustrated players because nobody knows how to play "their music". They get angry and leave. Rarely to be seen again.
As far as long solos go, unless people are playing instrumentals, most of the tunes go for only about 5 minutes. An intro, three or four verses of lyrics and couple of solos and you're out. The instrumentals are quite often only about five minutes. Anything longer, it starts to sound like wanking.
I see Aki perform quite often. Almost all of his tunes conform to the above strategy. His instrumentals don't typically last more than five minutes. When they do, it is usually for some harp freak audience who gets off on that stuff.
You never know what the audience will dig, unless you try it. If you want to play hardcore blues, then do it. You may be surprised by the reception.
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The Blues Photo Gallery
Last Edited by Joe_L on Mar 21, 2014 11:56 AM
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Kingley
3533 posts
Mar 21, 2014
12:25 PM
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"You never know what the audience will dig, unless you try it. If you want to play hardcore blues, then do it. You may be surprised by the reception."
I have to agree with Joe. Last week I played at a music night and there were a few line ups there. Most were singer songwriter solo acts, some were duos and one was an 80's band playing Dire Straits, UB40 and other popular stuff. The audience enjoyed them all but stayed seated. Which quite surprised me, especially during the 80's tribute band. When we got up, we played a straight shuffle a boogie, a swing and a slow blues. The audience were up and dancing from the first number and stayed there until the last.
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Littoral
1053 posts
Mar 21, 2014
12:38 PM
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2 things, connecting with an audience and reading a room. The connecting is about being able to play. Streisand could work a juke joint because she means what she says.
Reading a room, that's a serious skill and I've been really lucky to work with a few guys who are pro's at it. A prerequisite to calling the right tunes is having a giant repertoire in your bag and making great choices. YEARS of experience required.
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