|
Dirty-South Blues Harp forum: wail on! >
Developing your ear
Developing your ear
Page:
1
Rgsccr
221 posts
Feb 27, 2014
9:53 AM
|
So, a little background on why I am asking the question. I've been going to a great blues jam almost every week for a year and a half. The jam consistently features some of the best blues musicians in our area and is, generally, harp friendly. Most of the jammers are either pros or guys who actively play in bands. Nonetheless, the host and most of the guys (and gals) are quite willing to play with people below their level and are encouraging. So is the audience. While I am certainly not at the level of the better harp players, I felt that have improved over time to the point where I can contribute to songs. In fact, I was asked to join a band after sitting in at a gig. I practice/play close to an hour a day, and listen to blues all day long as I work.
So, an excellent guitar player and singer has started coming to the jam in the past month or so. This guy is the real deal - plays and sings Hooker, Muddy Waters, etc. with taste and style. He doesn't hog the stage. Anyway he apparently has taken me on as a project, telling me that I need to listen to more blues, get in a groove. Good advice. Well last week he comes over and says grab a harp and let's go outside. He then says play something. I don't know what he wants so I just play a little. He says bend a note and hold it. Says keep working on that and he goes inside. I play for a while and get cold so I go inside. He then comes over and starts talking about how by now I should be able to hear what's going on better, that my ear should be better. That he's played with a lot of harp players, the instrument isn't that hard, and maybe I am just butting my head against the wall and should re-think being a blues musician. I try and argue (a little) that I think learning styles are different and one can develop one's ear, and that my ear isn't bad when it's blues but I may struggle when I am occasionally thrown a curve with other types of music. I give up and go listen to the jam band. He does come over and say he's sorry if he offended me. When it's my turn to jam guess who is part of the group? Mr. Blues of course. We play four or five blues - Baby Scratch My Back - that seem to go well (got some applause for my solos), and he comes over at the end and says that was pretty good (pleasant to hear is what he said).
Forgive the long winded prelude, and let me ask the question - can you develop your ear? Let me say, I do feel that there are some "naturals" who have a better ear than most and a guy like me will probably never get there. Likewise, there are some who are tone-deaf and will never get very far. However, that leaves a wide range (where most of us fit) of people who can start at one point and over time improve significantly. My efforts at this mainly consist of listening to blues - both harp stuff - Little and Big Walter, Sonny Boy I and II, etc. - and other blues with or without harp - and trying to play along until it sounds right or close. I do record myself and listen as well from time to time. Also, I practice with my band and get feedback and jam. So ...?
|
JInx
735 posts
Feb 27, 2014
10:07 AM
|
I'm in the same boat, prolly worse. But, I believe you can develop your ear.
Just listening is not enough, IMHO. You must sing. Sing the intervals everyday 3 times a day. Sing the penta scales 3 times a day. Sing simple blues melodies 3 times a day. Sing a cappella. Sing against drone notes. Sing against a harmony. Sing along with recordings ...3 x day. Parrot you harp lines with your voice.
When listening to a singer, identify the devise he is using. Is it the major pentatonic scale, the minor, just a couple of notes, bending the 3rd? etc.
For me I have to keep after it, cause it goes away real fast if I don't.
----------
Sun, sun, sun
Burn, burn, burn
Soon, soon, soon
Moon, moon, moon
Last Edited by JInx on Feb 27, 2014 10:10 AM
|
Goldbrick
317 posts
Feb 27, 2014
10:08 AM
|
I play drums,percussion, guitar , some bass and harp. I've played with"name musicians" and with kids from a music school.
I think harp is the most frustrating instrument of all I have tried. Its totally non visual and ( blues harp anyway) requires notes that need to be " made" -i.e. not like plunking middle c on a piano
Your friend is either just yanking your chain or thinks he is giving tough love. Find some one else to play with and get their feedback-Your buddy aint helping any
Sometimes listening to outsider blues helps me -- hasil adkins, t model Ford, rahsaan roland kirk- just to hear the possibilties
Last Edited by Goldbrick on Feb 27, 2014 10:21 AM
|
barbequebob
2480 posts
Feb 27, 2014
10:27 AM
|
Here's the thing. Too many people believe that you have to have pitch perfect hearing in order to be a good musician, regardless of genre or instrument. While it IS helpful, it's really not necessary at all and few pros have that kind of hearing and the vast majority have what's called relative pitch and so they hear things more than close enough and do quite well.
Developing your ear is essentially learning how to REALLY LISTEN to music, NOT like a jam hack or a living room musician, but like the way professional musicians, recording engineers and record producers listen to music. What's the real difference?? What basically separates "the men from the boys" is what they're paying attention to. Living room musicians (basically those who just play for themselves at home and never play out even in jam sessions and there's nothing wrong with that at all) or jam hacks have a tendency to listen pretty much ONLY to solos and nothing else but solos and pro musicians/recording engineers/record producers are listening to EVERYTHING IN MINUTE DETAIL.
You don't EVER need perfect pitch hearing for this at all but you have to learn to pay attention to EVERY SINGLE DETAIL of what's going on around you 24/7/365 and what it comes down to is that there is absolutely NO SUCH THING as a detail too boring, too small or too unimportant to listen to at all.
Being a good musician, regardless of genre is not just about the ability to solo, as developing GOOD LISTENING SKILLS is EQUALLY important as well. I get on many harp players case about being too lazy to learn to get their time straight, learning basic theory and stuff like that because it's a HUGE problem with many harp players and because too many of them don't learn these things, they get dissed (and more often than not, DESERVEDLY SO) because they think these things are too unimportant and too boring and can't be bothered with that.
Learning good listening skills is, in many ways, like the difference between someone who works on an assembly line getting paid by the piece and a REAL craftsman (like a good harp customizer) where the assembly line worker paid by the piece has to put things together very fast and worry less about quality because the bigger the output, the more money they make, wheras a true craftsman pays careful attention to EVERY SINGLE DETAIL and they take a huge amount of pride in the quality of their work and want their stuff 100% top notch.
What he's telling applies to ANY musician and not just trying to be a blues musician. If you hang with this guy, he'll help you become a far superior musician than the vast majority of people who play in that jam you're at and that'll pay dividends and he'll prevent you from learning tons of bad habits many jammers have.
In a nutshell, to put it in a very brutally honest way, he's teaching you how to be more of a REAL musician and not just another jam hack few people are gonna respect at the end of the day.
In some ways, it reminds me of my earlier days being around some real blues pros where I learned FAR more from them than from what I would've learned by hanging around too many jam hacks.
Learn other stuff as well because I've been in bands that did other stuff as well, plus learned how to work with horns and play as part of the horn section.
That musician will teach you FAR more than those other jam hacks ever will in a single day than they'll ever learn in 100 lifetimes and that is not one ounce of BS.
----------
Sincerely,
Barbeque Bob Maglinte
Boston, MA
http://www.barbequebob.com
CD available at http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/bbmaglinte
|
Rgsccr
222 posts
Feb 27, 2014
10:50 AM
|
Good advice all, particularly Barbeque Bob. I do think this guy was trying to say things to that effect (about listening). I have Rick Estrin's DVD, Secrets of Blues Harmonica, and learning to listen is the first thing he talks about, too. My problem with what his guy told me is that I think I've gotten to the point where I hear and (generally) understand what is going on with blues (traditional blues from Sleepy John Estes to Chicago Blues) reasonably well. But put me on stage with someone playing jazz or rock - doesn't happen often at our jam but once in a while - and I'm lost. So I really don't have a problem with the things he said overall, except the comments about how "easy" harmonica is to learn and about how if your ear isn't there by now (not knowing how long I've played/listened)you aren't going to get there. I do think he may be giving me his version of "tough love," as he doesn't seem to be a guy who would waste time on a hopeless case. Either that, or I offend his ear and he is trying to fix that.
|
JInx
736 posts
Feb 27, 2014
10:57 AM
|
can you carry a tune?
----------
Sun, sun, sun
Burn, burn, burn
Soon, soon, soon
Moon, moon, moon
|
Rgsccr
223 posts
Feb 27, 2014
11:02 AM
|
Singing? Barely. Let's put it this way, after my bar mitzvah no one asked for an encore.
|
Leatherlips
233 posts
Feb 27, 2014
11:18 AM
|
Does this guy play harp himself? Easy my arse. It can take some people decades to become anything like professional. Of course there are exceptions to any rule, but this guy probably has no idea just how difficult it can be to learn to play any style of music on our chosen instrument.
We all have to take the knocks on the way and this may be just one of them. You're putting in plenty of work, so keep it up and you will get to where you want to be.
|
JInx
737 posts
Feb 27, 2014
11:23 AM
|
If you can cary a tune, your ear is good. If your mentor knocks you for no being able to jump into some out of the blue jazz tune, unrehearsed...well he's just trying to take you down a notch(for some reason).
----------
Sun, sun, sun
Burn, burn, burn
Soon, soon, soon
Moon, moon, moon
Last Edited by JInx on Feb 27, 2014 11:38 AM
|
barbequebob
2481 posts
Feb 27, 2014
11:26 AM
|
Harmonica is both the easiest as well as the hardest instrument to learn at the same time because tho it's easy to learn stuff like nursery rhymes, but to get really good at it, it is often the hardest to learn because of (until the dawn of the internet and all of the different videos and instructional materials since the internet) the lack of good instructional materials for decades.
Learning to sing will help out and the instruction of two necessary elements of that from a good vocal coach in the areas of proper breathing and relaxation techniques will help your harp playing out tremendously.
One of the things to learn if you want to be better as a musician is to learning to develop thick skin because regardless of the instrument you play, you will always be subject to criticism, both good and bad and that's a fact of life.
When that guy was telling you to hold out a note, it reminds me of things I had to learn when playing with a 5 piece horn section, which meant I couldn't just riff all over the place or play a warble, which too often is what the average harp player tends to do when unsure about anything and it's part of learning musical discipline, which most harp players lack in HUGE way.
When you're up there with people doing non blues changes, this is where it's time to really listen more than play and it's also where learning time and theory comes in as well as knowing exactly where you are on your instrument 24/7 comes in.
Just remember, along the way to learning how to be a better musician, you ARE going to get humbled many times in your lifetime but rather than wallow in misery and complain, use it as a learning experience and grow from that experience rather than just whine about it like harp players are too often guilty of doing all the time.
----------
Sincerely,
Barbeque Bob Maglinte
Boston, MA
http://www.barbequebob.com
CD available at http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/bbmaglinte
|
Rgsccr
224 posts
Feb 27, 2014
11:38 AM
|
Again, good advice Bob. I really don't feel like I am wallowing in this. After all,I did get up with this guy and play the same night. I also have no problem with criticism generally if I think it makes sense. The main reason I put this up was the idea that he posed that if your ear ain't there you might as well give up because it won't get better. Of course, I know the comment about how playing blues on the harp is easy is crap. By the way, the guy has told me he doesn't play harp. I just told the story to give some context to my question. I have no intention of quitting and I'll be back at the jam next week. If I can figure out how to post some stuff on Youtube I'll post a link here.
|
Rgsccr
225 posts
Feb 27, 2014
11:46 AM
|
Here (I think) is a link to me playing along with Paul deLay's "Say What You Mean, Baby."
http://youtu.be/nuOZeyUOj2E
|
Rgsccr
226 posts
Feb 27, 2014
11:59 AM
|
Here's me playing along with Taj Mahal's "She Caught the Katy"
http://youtu.be/LaFJJT4Ovyc
|
barbequebob
2482 posts
Feb 27, 2014
12:03 PM
|
Part of not getting accurate intonation and articulation on bends, not only in all of those holes you mentioned, but also with blow note bends in holes 8-10 comes down to getting control of your breath force as well as how well you manipulate the shape of the inside of your mouth (which also means doing things like forming the shape of how you pronounce vowels in your mouth) and in many ways, it mirrors what vocalists have to learn how to do as well. Players who teach themselves have a tendency to force everything to happen, which 98% of the time means the breath force goes up quite significantly and so it often makes it impossible for them to get control of anything and they wind up just not being able to get the hell out of their own way in the process and with amount of air being wasted, it also makes it extremely difficult for them to hold out a note and also hold out a note WITHOUT having to resort to using a vibrato and when you play as part of a horn section, this becomes EXTREMELY important to master. If you listen to the Lowell Fulson's original version of Reconsider Baby, the horns hold the notes out for a fairly long period of time without any vibrato at all as well as there are dynamics being used and most harp players have an extremely difficult time mastering it.
----------
Sincerely,
Barbeque Bob Maglinte
Boston, MA
http://www.barbequebob.com
CD available at http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/bbmaglinte
Last Edited by barbequebob on Feb 27, 2014 12:06 PM
|
bloozefish
155 posts
Feb 27, 2014
1:25 PM
|
when listening to genres other than blues, it helps me to key into what the bass player is doing, assuming he's a good bass player. If I 'get" the progression he (or she) is laying down, I can usually find something that works. To me, solos are fun, but the bread & butter of being a sideman is to support the rest of the band.
|
timeistight
1503 posts
Feb 27, 2014
1:44 PM
|
What do you think of the playing in these clips? If this were someone else asking for constructive criticism, what would you tell them?
|
Rgsccr
227 posts
Feb 27, 2014
2:11 PM
|
Well, I'd start with the harp player needing a haircut. Seriously, I like my playing okay in both videos. In the first I know I am playing over the singer which I would not normally do. I did that so I could play along more. Later deLay plays and I didn't want to just follow him (as if I could). I think my time is okay, and, for the most part, the tone and notes are reasonably close.
|
SuperBee
1711 posts
Feb 27, 2014
3:09 PM
|
Bass lines. Try playing along with the bass. I think that would probably be a good exercise for you. Play fewer notes and focus more. The bass will be outlining the chords, so if you put your focus here, learn the bass lines, you will develop your understanding of which notes work, and eliminate those which don't. It is a learning process.
|
Destin
68 posts
Feb 27, 2014
3:30 PM
|
In school they used to test us by playing simple 3 note melody's that everyone knows, like NBC, and we would have to tell what scale degree the notes were.
example 1 6 3
good drill
|
walterharp
1331 posts
Feb 27, 2014
4:00 PM
|
I would say yes, developing your ear is vitally important and takes work just like other aspects of playing music. My ear seems to develop with slow improvement over the years. By this I mean not only the microtones, but understanding all that is going around me. If your ear does not continue to develop, then you are not growing as a player, no matter how good you are.
|
Komuso
283 posts
Feb 27, 2014
10:47 PM
|
BBQBob is on the money imo.
Some great articles w/ practical advice on this from Jazz Advice
The Forgotten Skill
Hearing More Through Selective Listening
----------
Paul Cohen aka Komuso Tokugawa
HarpNinja - Your harmonica Mojo Dojo
Bringing the Boogie to the Bitstream
|
Martin
616 posts
Feb 28, 2014
5:10 AM
|
Very briefly: I think that "Can you develop your ear" is no longer a question of opinion (given some terminological stringency) but a firm fact.
Anecdotal evidence has been around for ages, but even more conventional empirical support is out there. (And there are a few volumes in my unsystematized personal library.)
Probably this wasn´t what you were asking for, but if.
|
Ugly Bones Ryan
57 posts
Feb 28, 2014
6:34 AM
|
I'd say yes. Bending in particular takes some development because sometimes even great harp players sound almost "immature" when they bend. Their inflection is a little weak and boring plus sometimes they bend it too far down (that was me about 4 months ago and I've been playing 4 years). I would say listening to people you enjoy listening to (even if they aren't blues) will help you develop style that you enjoy as well. You seem more advanced than me but this is just what I've learned.
|
Rgsccr
228 posts
Feb 28, 2014
9:02 AM
|
Thanks for all the thoughtful comments. I am glad to hear that people think that one can develop their ear. I have no problem thinking that I need to keep working on this, that it is an ongoing process, and that it entails more than just turning on a CD and humming or playing along. As I said at the outset, it was the guitarist's comment that some people just can't do this that bothered me. I wouldn't have given it any credence except that he is a talented musician and normally doesn't go around blustering. As one of you said, he may have been giving me his version of tough love. Anyway, I will keep at it - listening and playing. Thanks.
|
rockmonkeyguitars
8 posts
Mar 01, 2014
3:46 AM
|
I was deaf until I was 5 and had several surgeries on my ears to make myself capable of hearing at all. I now have hearing that works very different than most people. I am tone deaf (I can't hear changes in pitch) and there are certain pitches that I can't hear at all. I can't hear a word my neighbor says because she talks in a frequency range that I simply can not hear.
With all this working against me I have still managed to develop a recognition of tone and pitch but I don't just use my ears. I have to feel the notes vibrations and focus on the way they oscillate. I can't sing a tune because I can't feel it but I can play them on guitar and harmonica.
The best advice I would give somebody trying to develop and ear for tone is to get a book about tuning pianos and then use the techniques to tune something like a piano, harp (the kind with strings), or guitar. This will help you develop the needed techniques and then they will be easy to apply to harmonica later on.
|
GamblersHand
491 posts
Mar 01, 2014
4:37 AM
|
@Rgsccr
I had a quick listen to the clips. Although this isn't what you really asked for I have a few suggestions
As others have said, you could simplify your riffs. At times your phrasing should be tighter, though perhaps it's because you're listening and reacting to the song rather than playing to it? A backing track example might give a better indication.
Your riffs in these examples come across as improvised without really knowing where you're going with them. I think you need to have some stock core phrases that you can pull off with good timing and syncopation, then work on variations from there.
A few suggestions to make your playing more bluesy
- work on a strong "wail" - 4 draw with a little 5 draw for colour, and where to place it for maximum effectiveness
- really working on the 3 draw tones. That's where so much of the magic of cross harp blues playing is.
- deconstruct your typical riffs and understand where you're playing the 5 blow note. It has it's uses (it's the 6th of the scale) but it's not an especially bluesy note so can kill some of the blues flavour if overdone, especially if held or landing on the beat. In cross harp blues it's more typically a passing note say up to the 5 draw
As for your original question, I think that having an ear for blues music covers a lot of things - for example is there feel the beat on the 2 and 4, syncopation and swing, playing behind/ on/ in front of the beat, leaving space and letting the music breath, call and response, blues tonality etc. This all can be improved, though in my personal experience it can take a *long* time!
|
jbone
1511 posts
Mar 01, 2014
6:13 AM
|
To me, "ear" is a euphemism. What we mean is, can you find the timing, the right key, the tag ends of lines, the right small parts in between? Do we know when to NOT play? Some songs scream for an almost continuous harp line while others, you are lucky to find a solo part in the break.
I agree about the bass line idea. Jerry Portnoy has taught a lot of people to learn RHYTHM first and then work up to tasteful lead. I was one who wanted the spotlight way before I had any right to it. What I lacked in skill I tried to make up for in volume and number of notes played. Not pretty.
One must have command. Of the harp, the voice, whatever it is you play. If the instrument runs YOU you will get those sorts of comments.
Playing harp is not easy but many think it is and for that reason harp players are not taken seriously. I thought it would be easy early on and it took me a very long time to accept that I was a bad student and knew very little of value. I had to do something besides try to ape the parts I heard and liked. Accomplished players want to work with other accomplished and competent players.
I paid a lot of dues in jam sessions, open mics, on street corners, in the bedroom with the stereo going, but it was not until I adopted a real student attitude that I began the real journey.
That guitar guy means well probably. But it's incumbent on YOU to find a teacher who will guide you.
YOU must be the student and learn the lessons and then take that out and show what you know.
I jammed to "She Caught the Katy" a hundred times in the early 90's and had the part DOWN. Then it was called off at the jam one night and I basically nailed it. BUT. The guitarist that night didn't like harmonica, so he drowned me out. Every time he played it after that he made sure I could not compete volume-wise. He was no friend to harp players.
Anybody who says this thing is easy has not tried, or tried for long.
There are a lot of guys out there- for instance the guy who crashed Charlie Sheen's show in another thread- who give the rest of us a bad name, sometimes before we ever hit a note. WE have to get past that. We have to play that much better.
My greatest moments have been when I found a sort of zen simplicity to the big picture of playing harmonica. Work, work, work, try, try, try, and eventually you reach a sort of critical mass where it's clear that you CAN do this thing justice! Follow bass lines, horn lines, make the harp sing in its own voice, know when to be silent, learn all those tricks I have no names for but I do all the time, become a "part of" on a stage and accept how you are right then. If I had let mistakes stop me I would have quit 40 years ago. But the vital caveat is to LEARN.
Working in music and especially harmonica has taught me on one side real humility, and on the other, it has given me a huge validation in my soul. A few years ago our humble duo had a cd go to IBC and end up in between 6th and 30th place world wide. Not too shabby. Does that give me any laurels to rest on? Certainly it doesn't since there is always much more to learn!
----------
http://www.reverbnation.com/jawboneandjolene
https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100000386839482
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wa7La7yYYeE
|
SuperBee
1718 posts
Mar 01, 2014
4:53 PM
|
i just remembered someone used to post here and had a neat quote in the signature...something like "if you left some holes in your playing, maybe some music would fall out". easy enough to say, not quite so easy to learn, but a good thing to keep in mind. some folks can play all the time and sound good...i'm not that good
just recently i watched a video Annie Raines made...a basic, simple 12 bar solo. it doesn't hurt to revisit the basic simple stuff sometimes
Rgsccr, with respect to your playing above, its clear to me that you could easily play what annie demonstrates in this video, its simpler than what you are playing in some ways...but it sounds a lot better to me. in her opening remarks she talks about long tones, timing elements and using the space...
Last Edited by SuperBee on Mar 01, 2014 4:59 PM
|
slackwater
10 posts
Mar 01, 2014
6:30 PM
|
A few of the posts above said it, in their own way, that yeah, listen to everything that's going on, so that you can FEEL what's going on.
Mr. Guy says it better than I could:
P.S. I just tried to copy and paste a song to here but I don't think it worked. If your interested in what Mr. Buddy Guy said go to youtube and check out "I Go By Feel".
Last Edited by slackwater on Mar 01, 2014 6:41 PM
|
laurent2015
618 posts
Mar 01, 2014
8:35 PM
|
(I chose the vid with the woman, of course...Slack, to put down a vid, click first on share, and then on embed, then copy code and paste)
|
Rgsccr
229 posts
Mar 02, 2014
12:04 AM
|
I like the Annie Raines Lesson and the Buddy Guy selection. As Superbee said, I can play along with her reasonably well, and it's good to be reminded about the space between notes. I'm going to download the Buddy Guy song also, and keep Annie's suggestions in mind while working with it. Most of what our band does in more in line with these songs, although we do play "She Caught the Katy." I primarily play fills and short solos on most songs. The Paul deLay tune is one I play along with for practice. If I were to attempt something like that I would not play along continuously. In fact, when I practice his songs, including that one, I don't play like that. I like his material for the beautiful way he links notes together, and his great tone. So many great suggestions and lots of wisdom here from all of you - I'm glad I brought this up. I like Bob's point about breathe control and will work on that more.
Here's another question while I am at it - once in a while I will get out a tuner and go through the bends, especially draw 1-4, and see if I am hitting them accurately. I am not really playing scales just hitting the notes and holding them. Good idea? And speaking of bending and holding and breathe control, is 15-20 seconds a reasonable amount of time to be able to hold, say, the bottom bend on a two draw? Is this a good exercise?
|
rockmonkeyguitars
9 posts
Mar 02, 2014
2:15 AM
|
it is a very good exercise. Among other things you will develop your muscle memory. Developing muscle memory means that your mouth will eventually start to make the right shape for the perfect bends automatically. When you don't have to think about the bend you can really increase speed and creativity.
|
SuperBee
1721 posts
Mar 02, 2014
2:40 AM
|
personal anecdote: i had a lesson from Christelle a few years ago, in which she told me NOT to practice with a tuner, but use reference tones, such as a piano. She also suggested i learn to play 'yesterday':
2 2" 2"
2+
3" 3 4' 4 5+ 5 5+ 4 4
4 4 4+ 3' 3" 2 3' 3" 3"
3+ 2" 3" 3+ 1 2" 3" 3"
3" 3" 4 5+ 5 5+ 4 5+
4 4+ 4 3"
3" 3" 4 5+ 5 5+ 4 5+
4 4+ 5+ 5
4+ 3' 3"
2 2" 2"
i found this challenging, and rewarding. it requires you to hit the pitches bang-on, and in the 'why she ... say, I said ... ' part, the 3" is held on pitch for up to 5 seconds, (although hit several times)...but its good practice at holding it on pitch.
if you play it on pitch it just sounds so much better...it can be addictive
i still play this as a tune up, probably every day at some point.
i do think it helped me be more aware of what i was doing...so in terms of 'developing ear', probably good.
but, a few months after i spoke with Christelle, i mentioned what she'd said to Ian Collard. Ian just said flat out 'get a tuner'. he told me he gets students to do exercises such as you suggest above, holding bent notes steady for extended periods. he said they were usually surprised to see how what they thought was steady actually drifted quite a bit.
i think part of it is that its just an easy thing for a teacher to use...the student can see whats going on, if theres a disconnect between your ears and your brain..the tuner demonstrates to you via your eyes and that must make the teacher's job a little easier.
Christelle is right of course, you need to train yourself to hear pitches and not rely on a visual aid, but i think the tuner can be a useful tool, just dont become dependent on it
its kinda funny...i'll do exercises and check my bends with a tuner from time to time...i'll get it out at some point most every day...and usually find i'm up to 20 cents sharp or flat, sometimes more...which is probably why i got the tuner out...but then if i play that note in context of a particular song, more often than not it'll be bang on when i check with the tuner...
seems once the sound is memorised in context, it stays
oh man, sorry this is going on a long time...what i'm trying to say is that i think you probably ought to play scales in some form...if you can hit those bends, absolutely play scales. play arpeggios of major triads, major 7 chords, dom 7 chords, minor 7 chords...play all that stuff. that is really how you will start to develop your ear.
here is a neat exercise
try just playing the first 5 notes of a major scale, up and back...i mean do ray me far so far me ray do
play it in 1st position, from 4 draw. then from 1 draw. play it in 2nd from 6 blow, then from 2draw/3blow. play it in 3rd, from 1 draw...
try playing it 3rd position minor, from 4 draw. play it minor in second position, from 2 draw. go back and forward between the major and minor 2nd position. you can do this with the 3rd position major and minor from 1 draw as well
i cant play the OB/OD i need to make the first pos minor, so i can only do it from 7 blow...
but the point is to get your 2 and 3 chamber bends working nicely and in your ear and to do that you just need to be able to get the appropriate scales
you can mess with this for a while. i think very quickly you start to hear the difference, and start to take control of the half steps in those chambers.
anyway...sorry if this is too long-winded...i'm just trying to think of a few exercises which have helped me. if nothing else, do try the major/minor do ray me far so far me ray do exercise. its good because you can get the major 1st and second position and minor 3rd position without bending, and then apply that knowledge to your bends, without having to use an outside reference. plus you may develop a more intimate knowledge of the root 3rd and 5th for the I IV and V chords etc..
|
rockmonkeyguitars
10 posts
Mar 02, 2014
3:53 AM
|
There are a lot of harmonica players that can only hit low A on a C harp when they start at b and bend down to A. They can not simply start on A. This is where developing muscle memory is important. It's what teaches you to hit A immediately and not have to bend into it.
I believe the best way to develop muscle memory is to use a tuner and practice hitting the individual notes. This cements in your mind what the right note actually sounds like, as well as teaching you how to position your mouth for that specific note. That said, I think that you should only use the tuner when playing scales and practicing individual notes. When learning melodies and songs you should do that by ear. Listen to the song and figure out how to play it. Don't use a tuner and don't use tabs.
If there was one thing I would say that we should avoid when we try to develop our ear it would be tabs.
Last Edited by rockmonkeyguitars on Mar 02, 2014 3:59 AM
|
Kaining
28 posts
Mar 02, 2014
5:05 AM
|
Getting your bend in tune does need a tuner. The thing is, it's not to get to the note but to check if it is steady.
To me, it's easier to bend in tune if i first focus on what the sound is supposed to look like more than on muscle memory.
That's why the blues harp is hard when you start as you have no way to ear first what you are trying. And since you can't see what you are supposed to do...
Mimicking something you haven't heard nor seen, that's quite hard if not downright impossible.
Personally, i use an harp one step lower than my practice harp to check 3' and 3'' as the 3' become the +4 and the 3'' will become a 3. Play the notes i need on the lower harp, get the sound in my mind and then bend away...
After that, an electronic tuner is useful not to check your pitch but to play in unison using the "sound" button. I don't know if every tuner got that option though.
Then you check on the tuner. i got steady 3'' and 3' (A and Bb) quite fast doing that.
Works the same for any notes. I started popping up a F for the 9 draw in order to work on my 10°° on a C harp.
Also, as the topic is about the ear...I am trying the same thing to learn singing pitches (for the purpose of developing my ears) and it is working. Not as well as i want but when i do manage to get an A in pitch, i can sing that A low, medium and high without getting it wrong.
That happens once in a blue moon atm, i hope i do end up "remembering" the shape of each notes without having to use a diapason of any sort first at some point. i am getting close for the A but it is really not that common.
BTW SuperBee, what you said about being in tune while playing a tune and not necessarily while practicing just the note... i do believe that have something to do with relative pitch.
You expect the song to go from intervals to intervals more than notes to notes and thus, you get the intervals right on. Not the pitch of a bend but the intervals between notes. That's the reason we need to practice both exercise.
Well, i could be wrong about that but that explanation sure is the easiest i found to explain that phenomenon
|
Post a Message
|
