Destin
62 posts
Feb 19, 2014
7:26 PM
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Anybody have any recommendations on where I can get inexpensive custom harps set up for overdraws?
I don't have the time to set up harps myself and most custom are really expensive, though I'm sure worth it.
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Fishlips
17 posts
Feb 19, 2014
7:55 PM
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Uh... let me see... you think that custom harps take a lot of time to set up and are worth an expensive price. Yet, you are not willing to do that work yourself, and you don't want to pay the price that you believe them to be worth. Does that sum it up?
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arzajac
1287 posts
Feb 19, 2014
8:05 PM
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A "custom harp set up for overdraws" seems straightforward but what exactly are your expectations?
I like to describe all overbends (overblows and overdraws) as either (1) passing notes only or (2) notes that you can sustain and bend up several semitones.
If you are looking for a harp on which you can hit the overdraws without the expectation of being able to sustain them, add vibrato and bend them up, such a harp would require a lot less work than one set up for overdraws of a higher range. An out-of-the-box harp made airtight and with a little extra work can do the former. The latter requires lots more work including (but not limited to) advanced reed work and flattening of both the blow and the draw plate.
You get what you pay for. If someone offers you a cheap harp set up for overdraws, be sure to ask exactly what you will be getting. There is no standard language - some folks would call either harp an "overblow" harp.
I hope that helps.
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Custom overblow harps. Harmonica service and repair.
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arzajac
1288 posts
Feb 19, 2014
8:08 PM
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"Uh... let me see... you think that custom harps take a lot of time to set up and are worth an expensive price. Yet, you are not willing to do that work yourself, and you don't want to pay the price that you believe them to be worth."
In the OPs defence, it's not a bad question. As I said, there is no standard definition of an overblow harp so some might be offering harps that can overdraw at pretty low prices.
Also, I know MP has put hours of work into some harps he serviced (for $10 each at the time) just for fun. Stranger things have happened. No harm in asking...
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Custom overblow harps. Harmonica service and repair.
Last Edited by arzajac on Feb 19, 2014 8:09 PM
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Destin
63 posts
Feb 19, 2014
8:17 PM
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Basically, yes arzajac, just wondering if there is anything out there that will give me a for sure overdraw, with no expectations of being able to hold and bend it)
Just something to woodshed with
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Philosofy
513 posts
Feb 19, 2014
9:15 PM
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arzajac does a great job with my harps for a lot less than a Filisko or Richard Sleigh or Joe Spiers.
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Kingley
3471 posts
Feb 19, 2014
10:40 PM
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Destin - Customs are expensive because of the work involved. If you want something "cheap" to woodshed on, then I'd suggest you just learn to gap your own harps and follow Joe Spiers gapping videos on YouTube. That's about the only way I know of getting a harp set up how you want it without buying a full blown custom. Gapping doesn't take that long to do and you could do it whilst watching TV, surfing the web, listening to music, etc, etc.
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Gnarly
909 posts
Feb 19, 2014
11:42 PM
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I have certain things I like to repeat:
You can always improve a harmonica.
Everyone should be able to do simple things to their harmonicas to make them play better.
You are the person who is best equipped to set up your harmonica for your playing style.
If it sounds too good to be true, it is too good to be true.
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Gipsy
43 posts
Feb 19, 2014
11:51 PM
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I've got several harps built by Cain. They are excellent and IMHO they represent excellent value for money. Especially so as he's based here in the UK. He's recently built me a full overblow/overdraw Golden Melody, and it's wonderful. Magically I can now get 4, 5, and 6 overblows, and the 7 overdraw. Other than the 6 overblow, I'm far from being able to use these extra notes properly, but they are sustainable, and certainly the 6 overblow has given me an extra note at the top of the blues scale.
The success I've enjoyed has encouraged me to try my new found techniques on some of my OOB harps and magically on some I've been able to get a passing note 6 overblow.
What was important for me was practicing on a harp I knew was set up to overblow. It gave me a chance to try in the expectation of success
Last Edited by Gipsy on Feb 20, 2014 12:09 AM
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sonny3
125 posts
Feb 20, 2014
4:26 AM
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You can Get a golden melody to overblow holes 4 5 and 6 pretty well straight from the box.Don't know that I'd pay someone extra to build me one.
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Destin
65 posts
Feb 20, 2014
6:57 AM
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Hohner has a new series called Artist Setups and they have a harp called THE INSTRUMENTALIST for only $89 claiming to have chromatic capability.
I have no problem overblowing with stock marine bands, my concern is all about the overdraws, if they pop out this may be my answer.
Has anyone ever played on one of these?
Thanks everyone!
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Suffering Heath
4 posts
Feb 20, 2014
7:06 AM
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Gnarly -
At the risk of asking a question that has more than likely been answered elsewhere, can you give your opinion about exactly WHAT those basic things are that one should be able to do to make our harps play better? In a utopian world, a short list and google-able terms for youtube tutorials...
Thanks!
Heath
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www.reverbnation.com/thebluesprofessors
Last Edited by Suffering Heath on Feb 20, 2014 7:11 AM
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walterharp
1322 posts
Feb 20, 2014
7:52 AM
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Actually, this is not too bad of a question. If you want to learn overblows and overdraws, but don't have the money to buy the most expensive ones, then it is hard to learn to gap yourself and know if you are not able to overblow or overdraw or not able to gap.
Also, I have gone to the trouble to learn to emboss, shape reeds, gap, tune, all that.. but the fact is that I very rarely blow out a harp. A couple years down the road it is almost like starting all over. Just like playing you gotta keep in practice. That is another part of what you pay the customizers to do.
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smwoerner
239 posts
Feb 20, 2014
8:33 AM
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A harmonica can be set up to be exceptionally good for one particular type of playing and player or very, very good for multiple types of playing and players. Almost any harmonica can be set up to overbend very easily with minimal work. However, this may result in a sticky harmonica when played normally. A stock quality harmonica can usually be set up so an experienced player can hit the overbends relatively easily without adversely affecting the overall playability of the harmonica.
I’ve worked with new players who were having trouble with consistently hitting overbends and have set them up with a fairly tight harp that was not really suitable for gigging. Once they worked out what they were trying to accomplish I’ve opened the harp up a bit and they were easily able to hit the overbends and gig with a loud band without accidentally locking up the harmonica. This is no different than a guitar player selecting different string sizes and string height as their playing improves.
Also, as BBQBob often points out it’s about breath control. It’s also about learning your playing style and gaining the proper skills.
An accomplished musician can play almost any instrument regardless of how it’s set up and still sound better than an average musician on a top of the line and perfectly set up instrument. But, put an accomplished musician with a top performing instrument and then you have magic.
Not every harmonica is going to work for every occasion. Why do you think guitar players carry multiple guitars? They have different tunings and different string height for slide or finger picking and etc. Now a good player can play slide or finger pick on any setup but, it will be easier on an instrument that is properly setup.
I’ve set up harmonicas for players that they only use for a couple of songs due to special tuning or special gaping. They could play it on anything but, it sound better and plays easier on the right instrument.
As, Gnarly said, learn to do the basics such as gaping and cleaning. Learn the rest if you want to but, like your playing it will take a lot of time to get skilled. For me it was a trade off. I’m more mechanical than musical so I’ve found a tremendous amount joy helping my more musical and less mechanical friends.
The basics for a good harp are: Airtight comb to reed plate seal, proper gaping for playing style and proper tuning. After that it’s all magic and subjective tone.
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Purveyor of Optimized New and Refurbished Harmonicas.
scott@scottwoerner.com
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Kingley
3472 posts
Feb 20, 2014
9:01 AM
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Destin - If you can play over blows on an out of the box harp then all you need to do is some gapping to get the overdraws. Gapping harps is something that every single player should learn how to do. Once you know how to gap you can pretty much set up any harp to your playing style.
If you never learn how to anything else to your harps. You should to learn how to gap and tune them.
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Gnarly
910 posts
Feb 20, 2014
9:09 AM
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@SufferingHeath Sounds like fodder for a new thread to me!
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Gipsy
44 posts
Feb 20, 2014
11:52 PM
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I think many peeps,here are missing the point. Until you hit an overblow there are 2 possible reasons.
First poor technique and second non responsive harp. The only way to decide which it is, is to eliminate one of the variables. The simplest way to achieve this is to possess a harp that is guaranteed to overblow/overdraw. There is no other way of knowing for certain. There is definitely the possibility of buying an OOB harp which has the ability to play overblows, and there is the possibility of a developing harp player coming across such a harp. Having read the thousands of described ways of getting an overblow the aspiring player may at random pick a method and luckily it might just work. But if not the player will have no idea whether it's the harp or the technique which is at fault.
If you have a harp which is guaranteed to overblow then learning to overblow can be similar to learning traditional draw and blow bends. It's just part of the learning curve, and not something to be tagged on at the end.
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BluesJacketman
80 posts
Feb 21, 2014
12:22 AM
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So basically the shorthand answer here is an inexpensive custom is still over $100.
Some people say they can overblow on OOTB Seydel 1847 and Session Steels.
So bite the bullet and buy a custom then learn to customize yourself.
Last Edited by BluesJacketman on Feb 21, 2014 12:23 AM
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groyster1
2538 posts
Feb 21, 2014
8:54 AM
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maybe you should research the time spent in customizing a harp....they should be rewarded for their time...which is precious
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Fishlips
18 posts
Feb 21, 2014
7:58 PM
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groyster1,
That was the point I did a poor job of expressing earlier. The time necessary to customize a harp is of value, and we should either be willing to invest the time ourselves to develop and apply the skills, or we should be willing to compensate others for the investment of their time and ability. I don't object to a discount, of course, and have appreciated the generosity of others from time to time. Still, I don't like to presume that customizers should provide "something for nothing," or even much for little.
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groyster1
2546 posts
Feb 22, 2014
6:41 PM
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we are on same page,fishlips....so glad I found this forum via adams youtube lessons
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HarpNinja
3789 posts
Feb 22, 2014
7:50 PM
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The problem with inexpensive customs is you have to eventually cut corners to keep the cost down. It isn't worth the hassle to the customizer, often.
Either that, or they do the boat loads of work but aren't as efficient or capable as the guys building the expensive ones. I stick my neck out a bit with that comment.
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Mike
My Website
My Harmonica Effects Blog
Rock Harmonica Lessons
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Jehosaphat
692 posts
Feb 22, 2014
9:56 PM
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If being able to work on a harmonica is some sort of arcane 'mojo' thing.. well they are then an artist.
How much does an artist cost? Exactly ,whatever their talent is worth.
If they are a mechanic (tradesman) their hourly rate can be judged against similar skills.
The closest trade to working on a harp i can envisage is probably a jeweler or watch repairer.
Where i live that translates to around 25$ an hour.
Is that fair for harmonica work?Or are they artists?
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harp-er
532 posts
Feb 23, 2014
8:53 AM
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So if they are tradesmen working at 25 dollars an hour, and spending 10 hours to set up a top quality custom harp, that's the $250 some of these cost, without even factoring in the original cost of the harp itself. And without having to be "an artist".
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SuperBee
1697 posts
Feb 23, 2014
1:18 PM
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$25 per hour? I know a hotel maid. She earns $22 per hour. She can't make a harmonica play well but she can change your sheets before you can turn around...
What I mean is...at that rate it's pretty hard to work enough hours to pay the rent and eat and wear clothes. Might be ok for hobby earnings though.
The top customiser in this country sells his cheapest product at $450 last time I looked.
Going hourly rate for an electronic work (for instance) here is $80 per hour.
I don't know that a customiser would spend 10 hours direct time on a harp though. That seems like a lot of time...seems to me that once a fellow had his practices settled it wouldn't be 10 hours per harp.
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