droffilcal
58 posts
Feb 08, 2014
11:05 AM
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I have begun rehearsing with a singer-songwriter's group, with a gig set up for late March. The lineup is singer, bass, drums and me on harp/trombone.
The tunes really vary in style from boogie woogie blues, early rock&roll, folky pop, and "adult contemporary". I'm generally playing with an acoustic harp sound, using an SM 58 into my Kustom Contender 18W hybrid tube amp (using an impedence matching device), but I would like to be able to work with a more "bluesy" sound on some of the blusier/rock tunes.
I have tried switching from the SM 58 to my Ruskin ceramic element bullet mic, but I'm not getting much of the character I want without turning the amp up -- and then it's too loud for the group. It's also a little cumbersome when I'm switching from the acoustic setup to the bullet mic setup, twiddling knobs on the amp, etc.
What solutions can I explore ? Going straight into the PA ? Pedals ? Is there a small modeling amp that would give me the kind of flexibility I'm looking for ? Or is it as simple as getting a mic with a volume control ?
Any and all suggestions appreciated !
Last Edited by droffilcal on Feb 08, 2014 11:05 AM
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Kingley
3449 posts
Feb 08, 2014
11:10 AM
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Firstly can you get that "bluesy" sound acoustically? If you can't then you'll need to work on your technique a little first. If you can already get it, then I'd suggest either a Lone Wolf Harp Attack or Harp break pedal. Use that into the PA and then you can be as loud or as quiet as you want to be. With as much or as little overdriven sound as you choose.
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droffilcal
59 posts
Feb 08, 2014
11:54 AM
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@Kingley -- yeah, I can get the bluesy sound acoustically -- also experimented w/ different harps, i.e. GM or 1847 for cleaner sounding tunes and MB classic or deluxe for the bluesier tunes.
But I'm finding the cupped mic sound a cool alternative to the acoustic sound, kind of like using a mute to give the trombone a different sound -- looking for a way to easily switch between sounds.
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DukeBerryman
139 posts
Feb 08, 2014
11:58 AM
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How about one of those toy amps that all the manufactures are making? With the 3" speakers? Could be kinda fun.
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Kingley
3450 posts
Feb 08, 2014
11:59 AM
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Well if you used a Harp Break or Harp Attack pedal, you could use an SM58 and set it how you want it when you play acoustically and then just switch the pedal on when you want the overdriven sound. You'd just need to spend time getting the volume settings right.
Alternatively you could use the SM58 as you do now and then run the Ruskin into the pedal. Then all you have to do is pick up the Ruskin when you want that overdriven sound.
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jbone
1490 posts
Feb 08, 2014
12:28 PM
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One small thing that has worked for me: put the sm57 in a stand so you can cup.
My rig for small combo an d duo is a 12 watt Silvertone 1482 with a LW harp delay and a Shure 585 bll mic in a stand usually. I also use a cm brown bullet, a Ruskin or Astatic crystal mic, or a modded EV m43u that is switched up to high z. The delay is used with discretion, sparingly, and the tone is purposely set bass-y.
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http://www.reverbnation.com/jawboneandjolene
https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100000386839482
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wa7La7yYYeE
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Rick Davis
2949 posts
Feb 08, 2014
1:31 PM
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droffilcal, what do you mean by "bluesy" sound? Like, exactly...
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-Little Rick Davis
The Memphis Mini harp amp
The Blues Harp Amps Blog
The Mile High Blues Society
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TheATL
78 posts
Feb 08, 2014
2:19 PM
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You might want to try an Epiphone Jr. with the Lone Wolf mods. I use mine with a bullet mic from Greg and it sounds great. Of course, sounds better turned up to 12, but even at lower volumes, with the Lone Wolf mods, it is easy to get that Chicago Blues amplified sound (if that is what you mean by "bluesy").
There is another way to go, and I have been very impressed with this - it involves spending a small amount of cash, but the results are actually pretty impressive. What you do is use an iPhone app to simulate the distortion and effects of Fender amps. You then use a direct box to feed into a clean house PA. For your application you could use any one of a number of clean small amplified speakers that are available.
[Long version]
If you have a mobile device (I have an iPhone) or an iPad, get the AmpliTube Fender app. Buy the least expensive iRig, which is an adapter that lets you run a harp mic into your iPhone and gives you audio out through a mini-headphone jack. You will need one more adapter that goes from mini-headphone to 1/4" phone, and you will need a 1/4" phone guitar cable.
Harp mic into the iRig, iRig mini-headphone adapted to 1/4" into a clean amp. Done.
The Fender AmpliTube app allows you to simulate many different amps and effects. I like to use the Bassman and a little reverb. Hope this helps.
Brad
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droffilcal
60 posts
Feb 08, 2014
2:29 PM
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Rick, the "blusey" sound I'm going for is triangulated somewhere between the three clips below -- I realize that it's probably closer to what most people consider a clean sound, but that's kind of what I'm going for on this gig anyway.
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Rick Davis
2950 posts
Feb 08, 2014
3:30 PM
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Jason Ricci is a member here and a frequent ccmmenter. Maybe he can give you the lowdown on what he was using on the recording. His normal rig at the time was a 4x10 amp and fairly elaborate pedal board.
On the Big Walter recording, most of what you're hearing is just his amazing technique. There is a little amp overdrive on the first song... It is the cool sound of a bullet mic driving a small tube amp. Big Walter was known to play a Fender Princeton amp, among others.
I haven't played the Kustom Contender amp, but I think it can do what you want. The first video has a lot of delay on the harp and Jason has some delay going on. Is that what you are hearing? Do you have delay or reverb?
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-Little Rick Davis
The Memphis Mini harp amp
The Blues Harp Amps Blog
The Mile High Blues Society
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LSC
591 posts
Feb 08, 2014
7:02 PM
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Add a voice to simply adding a LW Harp Break, listening to the tracks you posted as examples of what you're going for and the description of the gig.
It sounds like you're happy with what you have but just want to expand the sound. Only adding the Harp Break would allow you to vary crunch to suit the song or find a happy medium and just hit the button, would be a simple and practical solution which won't cost a whole lot of money.
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LSC
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Kingley
3451 posts
Feb 08, 2014
10:15 PM
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A Harp Break or Harp Attack coupled with a delay pedal would get you very close to those sounds and even more overdrive and echo if you wanted it.
Here's a couple of examples of me using a Harp Attack pedal into the PA, that may give you some idea of what it can do. I have the drive only a quarter of the way on, in each clip The first one was a loud raucous jam, the second was a low volume jam. On the second video the Harp Attack is near the end of the clip.
Another option might be cupping an SM57 direct into the PA. Just set it up to clip on the channel. Here's an example of Jim Liban doing just that.
Last Edited by Kingley on Feb 08, 2014 10:45 PM
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droffilcal
61 posts
Feb 09, 2014
6:00 PM
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Thanks to all for your thoughts, suggestions and advice; I will try some of these ideas and see what works. The gig is supposed to be professionally filmed for the singer's promo packages, so I will post anything of value that results !
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BluesJacketman
71 posts
Feb 09, 2014
9:14 PM
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Small Harmony amps are very quiet and break up super early. i have an H400A and it breaks up at about 10-11 o'clock when i dial it in. Them my buddy has a Harmony H303a and it sounds great at 1 on the dial. Just bareley turn that amp up and it gets some of the nicest break-up I have ever heard. They are being sold super cheap right now, i usually can one for 200 0r under.
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MindTheGap
247 posts
Feb 10, 2014
2:45 AM
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That's a great clip from Jim Liban - there's that big dynamic range I was asking about a while ago. And I see he plays cupped, open, and even takes his SM57 right away from the harp to play quiet high notes.
Shows me again there is more to mic technique than just tight cupping. Thanks!
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MTG
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HarpNinja
3740 posts
Feb 10, 2014
6:41 AM
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I use a SM58 all the time. I run straight to the PA and rely on monitors. I have a full pedal board and use a Lone Wolf HarpBreak as an overdrive.
Here is clean:
Here is dirty:
The trick is, I have to have a boost in front of the HB to hit it hard enough to clip with a 58. It is more distorted sounding with a 57 or bullet naturally. I have an Xotic EP Booster set to about 2 o'clock always on. That is right infront of the HB. I then hit it hard enough to get really nasty distortion. Otherwise, it sounds hairy - but not really distorted.
My point being, if you want Jason Ricci - like break up from the HB, you'll need to boost your signal with a 58. Jason has a wireless that is set pretty hot and he is using a 57, hence the dramatic change in tone with the HB on.
***The EP is an awesome preamp and I'd use it all the time regardless of the mic output.
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Mike
My Website
My Harmonica Effects Blog
Last Edited by HarpNinja on Feb 10, 2014 6:50 AM
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