Rick Davis
2929 posts
Feb 02, 2014
12:21 PM
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Do you use delay on small 5-watt amps?
I spent a lot of time this morning with the Memphis Mini amp and an MXR Carbon Copy analog delay pedal, trying to get the settings just right. I've always thought the MM amp sounded better without any effects but maybe I had rushed to that judgement. I gave it a closer look.
One of the things I like best about the MM amp is the colorful crunch that just naturally flows from the amp, especially when you hit a percussive lick or let two adjacent reeds ring. It never sounds dry.
No matter what I did with the delay pedal I couldn't come up with a sound that I thought improved on the naked tone. The delays -- long and short -- just muddied up the crunch, kind of knocking the edges off, muting the colors.
Delays are great for thickening up the sound of amps that don't crunch much, like many Bassman RI amps and other large amps. But I think many smaller cathode biased class A amps sound better without it. Crunch is overtones, and all those overtones make the amps sound good.
What got me thinking about this was a gig I attended last week where the harp player -- who played well enough -- had a small amp with a LW delay pedal with so much delay it sounded oceanic. It was like I couldn't really hear the amp, and I wanted to.
Anyway, after playing the MM amp this morning for a couple of hours I am completely convinced it sounds best with zero effects. It has its own distinctive crunch... you don't have to throw any pedals in front or it or do anything special with your technique. Just play it.
It is the same with my Fender Champ amp, and it was the same with my Premier Twin 8 and Multivox amps. Do you think delay improves the sound of small amps?
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-Little Rick Davis
The Memphis Mini harp amp
The Blues Harp Amps Blog
The Mile High Blues Society
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LSC
585 posts
Feb 02, 2014
12:57 PM
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Depends on the amp I would have thought, but I know what you mean by liking certain aspects of the delay but not liking the way it takes the edge off the crunch. I'm wondering would an LW Reverb have the same problem?
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LSC
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dougharps
536 posts
Feb 02, 2014
1:17 PM
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I used to be a big fan of delay with harp (I have two different pedals), but for me now less is more, and often I prefer none at all. If the amp sounds good dry, why mess with it? It is really easy to end up with a muddy tone, and for notes to lose clarity and crispness with delay (and with too much reverb).
Certainly this is not the case with Adam G. and his use of delay.
I most often don't choose to use effects if the amp sounds good already.
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Doug S.
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kudzurunner
4531 posts
Feb 02, 2014
1:21 PM
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Yes yes yes! I use delay with small amps. That's what I do.
I use about 400 milliseconds, longer than many, but it's crucially important to moderate the other two settings. I generally run them around 8:30 or 9:00 position. The more overdrive/crunch you've got, the less you need, but they're subtle gradations and the room size and what's on the floor and walls makes a difference.
In the second video, I don't turn on the delay until midway through.
Last Edited by kudzurunner on Feb 02, 2014 1:23 PM
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Greg Heumann
2581 posts
Feb 02, 2014
1:54 PM
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Go with what you like. Here's my take. If you're going into the studio play it dry. They have a huge selection of delay and reverb effects they can play with and take back out if you don't like it.
Live - I go round and round with pedals. I play with delay and I like it. Then one day I play straight into the amp and say "hey I like that." So I play with nothing for a while. Then I switch to reverb and say "hey I like that". So I play with reverb for the next several months and then I plug straight in again and say "hey I like that".... and around and around and around. There is no right answer.
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***************************************************
/Greg
BlowsMeAway Productions
See my Customer Mics album on Facebook
BlueState - my band
Bluestate on iTunes
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Rick Davis
2930 posts
Feb 02, 2014
2:41 PM
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No delay or other effects. I like the way Adam sounds with the delay, and I like this, too.
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-Little Rick Davis
The Memphis Mini harp amp
The Blues Harp Amps Blog
The Mile High Blues Society
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DukeBerryman
115 posts
Feb 02, 2014
3:35 PM
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@Rick That sound sounds perfect
@Kudzu I love your use if two small amps. I'd probably be tempted to throw in the delay in that kind of set up. I finally have two 8" amps - a Kustom with tube preamp and a solid state Orange. Can't wait to try them together.
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blueswannabe
404 posts
Feb 02, 2014
4:44 PM
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I'm I the Greg heumann school of thought, sometimes dry, sometimes reverb, sometimes delay, and sometimes harp break. I also switch between cathode and fixed bias. But I guess if you play with the same setup and pedals, you begin to create your signature sound.
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rbeetsme
1487 posts
Feb 02, 2014
6:39 PM
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I have had a number of delay pedals. The MXR was just too sensitive, never got it to sound right with any amp. Rick, you suggested that yours was compressing the tone, I noticed the same with my LW delay. The LW v2 is supposed to compress less, doesn't filter as much, more presence. My boss units were pretty decent and my current Digitech is decent. I think it is very subjective.
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GamblersHand
482 posts
Feb 03, 2014
2:23 AM
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I use a Boss DM-3 with a 7.5W Marble Max. I agree with you and others that it sounds fine without - though the impression on stage vs out front can differ a little. I don't like heavy delay as it can wash out the crunch - I use repeat at halfway, but the Echo and Intensity at about "2".
Here's a clip from a jam; all amps were mic'ed. Harp at about the three minute mark.
A fairly sketchy performance as I'd never tried the song before!
To my ears it sounds about the right balance of crunch vs delay, could even add a little more delay
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Kingley
3433 posts
Feb 03, 2014
3:08 AM
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I'm with Greg. I tend to not stick with one set up. Sometimes I'll use delay, sometimes I won't. It's all down to my mood on the day, what I've been listening too. If I'm at a festival and there's a harp player in the band before me then I'll choose a different sound to them. Just to be a little different and to mix things up for an audience. I may use an amp, I may use delay, might use reverb, I even may forego everything and just play in the PA, I may use any combination of set ups. I think it's very important to not get stuck in one sound. For example if a players uses a tight closed cup, delay and a bassy sounding amp all night, it's great at first, but then it gets mighty boring, mighty quickly to my ears.
Last Edited by Kingley on Feb 03, 2014 3:08 AM
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Slimharp
165 posts
Feb 03, 2014
8:11 AM
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I use a LW delay with just a touch of delay. It does not effect the crunch on my Bassman or GA-45. Too much will screw things up and sound too hollow. I think the delay thing came from the natural sound of the older analog recording equip. It was there but it wasnt heavy.
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timeistight
1483 posts
Feb 03, 2014
9:34 AM
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Rick, you always line out the Mini into the PA, right? Try putting the delay between the amp and the PA.
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Rick Davis
2931 posts
Feb 03, 2014
10:34 AM
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Timeistight, when I spent all the time with the MXR pedal yesterday it was down in my workshop and the amp wasn't lined out. But I'll try that at Ziggies jam next Sunday.
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-Little Rick Davis
The Memphis Mini harp amp
The Blues Harp Amps Blog
The Mile High Blues Society
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Barley Nectar
278 posts
Feb 03, 2014
3:24 PM
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Yes!
Very timely, I just tried my new/old mid 80's Arion SAD-1. Just came in the mail today. I now have three of these, that's how much I like this pedal. Had it hooked up to my Zoo II and a little 6W SS amp that I built yrs ago. Stereo! This is the MIJ black case one. Just compaired it to one of my MIJ gray case ones. Can't tell the difference.
Anyhoo, As with most stuff, makes a difference depending on the pedal, room, amp, mic, ect, ect...
I most always hook this pedal up. Don't use it all the time. Sometimes turn it off for leads. Sometimes crank it for spacy sounds, depends on the song. This is the ONLY pedal I use. I do have others but they suck tone. I don't hear the Arion cutting the edge or getting muddy when used in moderation. It will fatten things up a bit.
As for signature sound, I feel that comes from you, not your gear. You sound like you no matter what you play thru. JMO as always...BN AKA Gose
Last Edited by Barley Nectar on Feb 03, 2014 3:30 PM
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capnj
185 posts
Feb 03, 2014
8:39 PM
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Play dry,play wet, guitarists especially go thru the same decisions,depends on the song.Gambler I liked your first solo w/delay settings,very strong,yet at the end to strong.Rick's sounded good without on that song.Adam got himself dialed in from many years of experience.
I agree with greg for recording,and kingley about mixing it up.Fun to play with,hard to be satisfied,enjoy the journey.Your own tone has to be consistent,to feel if the effect is playing you,or your using the benefits.Something I grapple with while practicing,Yeah in the mood Big Walter.
Last Edited by capnj on Feb 03, 2014 8:48 PM
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mrdon46
86 posts
Feb 05, 2014
9:05 PM
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Like Greg, I go round and round with pedals. That being said, some amps seem to benefit from pedals and some don't, and I tend to use them more with bigger amps than with smaller--I never use anything with my 'Zoo except its own tremolo.
As for the relationship between "crunch" and "delay", as I understand them they're two different things. Delay can definitely "fatten" an amp's tone, but for what I think of as "crunch" I'll use my Lone Wolf Harp Octave (one octave up) with just a bit of effect dialed in, it really seems to help (to my ear, we're talking about very subjective things here) bigger amps like my Bassman clone.
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