MindTheGap
164 posts
Jan 11, 2014
10:08 AM
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Sorry for all the posts today, just I got a whole day to myself to practice for once.
Just want to say how much I like this, it's full of great rhythmic ideas. I'll take your advice about studying the masters, but I'm studying you too :-) At about 60% speed, one set of 12-bars at a time.
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Frank
3680 posts
Jan 11, 2014
4:36 PM
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Really appreciate the kudos MTG...that is a good one to learn from because my phrasing ideals are easy to follow...
A trick I'll use when trying to learn a new song that has a lot of double stops, warbles, octaves and such is...
when I hit some tricky or hard spots in the song -I'll practice them as single notes first and once I got that down, then I'll add embellishment to get them to sound correctly as originally played.
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MindTheGap
167 posts
Jan 12, 2014
4:15 AM
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That's a good idea. There are too many embellishments here for my standard at the moment, but you know, work in progress.
I just mention a few rhythmic patterns I really, really like - the turnaround at about 40s and the little switcheroo going from I to IV chord at about 50s, and again at 2m0s.
There are rich pickings here!
Oh, and it is great to listen to too, not just a study piece. Sounds like you could play this all day, if the backing track were long enough.
Last Edited by MindTheGap on Jan 12, 2014 4:16 AM
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Frank
3681 posts
Jan 12, 2014
4:39 AM
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Good morning...I too am always learning cool stuff from the members on this site -including from you, so thank you for your input... That BT is real muddy in the mix but...it is the CLASSIC get the folks on the dance floor beat and groove, and I agree - a live band can drive that groove til the cows come home if they want to and the dancers will eat it up :)
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Sarge
380 posts
Jan 12, 2014
7:04 AM
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I really like that!!!
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Wisdom does not always come with old age. Sometimes old age arrives alone.
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Loz123
25 posts
Jan 16, 2014
4:39 AM
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Love this frank you’re a quality player. I like all the vids you have been posting. Have you ever dune a version of Little Walters Don’t need no horse. I’ve being trying to study this but really struggling with it
thanks
Laurie
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Frank
3698 posts
Jan 16, 2014
6:00 AM
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Hi Sarge thanks for your support and top a the mornin to ya Laurie...Thank you too... I have done a study of that Great Instrumental probably 15 years ago...I need to re-visit it, it is a fun, fun ,fun song as I recall - just puts a smile on your face hearing it and playing it makes you feel so good:)
Here is a transcription that I wrote out all those years age...It's a ruff draft and makes perfect sense to me...check it out and if you have any ?, I will try to oblige :)
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Loz123
26 posts
Jan 16, 2014
1:25 PM
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Hi Frank the bit iam struggling with is the riff he plays at 0.57 on the video you posted can't work it out!
thanks
Laurie
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Shaganappi
78 posts
Jan 17, 2014
9:09 AM
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Don’t Need No Horse - Thanks Frank. What interests me the most about it is the rhythm nuances.
0= /[111]11[111]11/ / / / etc.
0:50= /[111]-,11 1 / / / or actual notes: (/[456+]-,45 4 / / /)
0:54= /[111]11[11]1 /
1:00= /[111]11-1[1 ]/
The same old notes more or less played over and over and over but with such slightly nuanced differences in the rhythm. Very cool.
For notation system of yours - very proprietary I would say ...
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Frank
3705 posts
Jan 17, 2014
6:04 PM
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Laurie...That Transcript I did many moons ago in my beginning stages and I'm positive has many errors, so it is merely a ruff draft to get one pointed in at least some kind of direction...
Had'nt had a chance to really listen hard to that spot at 57 sec yet, but in passing, I believe he is using (thinking in the key of "C") G and the Bb and A...
when I get a chance I'll look closer and put up a sound sample played slow :)
Or anyone else who wants to chime in is more then welcome to pitch in :)
Hey Shag, yeah man - he is a bonifde rhythm monster - a thing of beauty to listen to Little Walters playing, just magical :)
Last Edited by Frank on Jan 17, 2014 6:05 PM
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Frank
3720 posts
Jan 21, 2014
8:14 AM
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I'm using an "A" harmonica in this example - The original is played on a "Bb" harmonica....Here are some lick snippets of that 57 sec spot...It is merely meant to point you in a helpful direction - it can be tweaked as the player sees fit, I'm playing it a little differently than what I wrote on the transcript :)
Original LW lick "Bb" Harmonica...
Last Edited by Frank on Jan 21, 2014 4:49 PM
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Shaganappi
79 posts
Jan 21, 2014
8:09 PM
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I hear LW's rhythm as:
0:57= /1 11[11]11/1 11[11]1 / or actual notes: /2'' 33[3'2]3'3/2'' 33[3'2]2 /
And to my earlier feeble attempts, not triplets but just faster straight time:
0:00= /1 1 [11]1 / / / or actual notes: /2 2 [3'3s]4 / / / etc.
(where 3s = holes 234, ie play hole 3 and "smile")
I THINK I am improving my ear but sometimes I wonder … comments per accuracy?
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Frank
3724 posts
Jan 23, 2014
3:13 AM
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Shag, we're in the same boat - just havin fun exploring a Masters music - no comment, other then congratulation for learning from the Best of the Best - All the great harpsters have spent long hours worshiping at the alter of Little Walter - "It's a clue" I guess :)
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The Centipide Saloon
Tip Your Waiter Please
Last Edited by Frank on Jan 23, 2014 3:14 AM
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Loz123
27 posts
Jan 23, 2014
4:50 AM
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To Frank and Shag
Thanks so much for helping me with this one. Great help from across the ocean! Now you’ve broke it down for me it’s not to bad but when I was listening to it I just could not get it. Great advices frank about listening to the greats .I’ve been working my way through the classics and i feel I am making good progress. Been playing for 4 years now on a regular basis. I struggle with tabs and reading music due to dyslexia so I tend to learn by ear. What I keep finding with little Walter is I start to study a tune but suddenly |I hit a brick wall like this one. It’s happened when learning That’s it ,and the ten hole blow bend on Evans Shuffle
Many thanks
laurie
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Loz123
28 posts
Jan 23, 2014
10:48 AM
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Frank
When I listen to your clip of little Walter playing, is there two harmonicas playing, one doing the lick and another playing rhythmically?
thanks
Laurie
Last Edited by Loz123 on Jan 24, 2014 2:56 AM
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Frank
3740 posts
Jan 24, 2014
5:54 AM
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["I struggle with tabs and reading music due to dyslexia so I tend to learn by ear".]
Building you ear muscles will always be a great workout for making you better and better and better...And with some artists like Little Walter - you will really have to be extremely thorough and in no hurry whatsoever to Master any song of his.
It is a slow and usually long process and "only tedious" if you covet (progress NOW)...
Studying and learning a tune is not about how fast you can accomplish the feat - but how much are you mindfully processing each segment in order for the lesson to add Long Lasting Concrete Value to your musicianship.
When ever I can - if I can get my hands on a copy of a ....PROFESSIONALLY DONE TRANSCRIPT... from the likes of David Barrett for example - it will really give me a more perfect example of what notes are being played etc.
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["What I keep finding with little Walter is I start to study a tune but suddenly I hit a brick wall like this one".]
Join the crowd, hahahahaha...Remember, he is the FATHER of incorporating almost every technique available into many of his tunes and he does it so seamlessly and gracefully.
And that really IS the ultimate lesson to be extracted from his tunes,,, Learning how to move around the harmonica with such ease while executing some incredible displays of technique and innovative musical phrasing.
So, think of the "brick wall" as a signal that there is A LOT of very important information in that difficult spot and it wants you to take the time necessary to figure it out!
Ultimately, you as a student are going after the FEEL of LW's playing...
His note choices are great delectable learning aids, but the notes don't need to be the exact ones - they WILL get more precise as you become further intimate with the tune at hand...
The improvisational attitude and internal swinging lessons you'll learn from Little Walters tunes is what will illuminate your world as a inspiring musician.
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["When I listen to your clip of little Walter playing, is there two harmonicas playing, one doing the lick and another playing rhythmically"?]
The technique you mention is one of his claims to fame - he delicately bites and chews a chord or partial chord while effortlessly articulating the melody note tongue blocked. David Barrett has lessons that can enlighten things like this...
My example is just a starting point - learning to make sense of the skeleton so to speak :)
Last Edited by Frank on Jan 24, 2014 6:05 AM
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Loz123
29 posts
Jan 24, 2014
9:26 AM
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Thanks Frank
You have been a real help with this one
"The technique you mention is one of his claims to fame he delicately bites and chews a chord or partial chord while effortlessly articulating the melody note tongue blocked" Jesus that's unbelievable to me it like he is playing two harmonicas at once. I think mastering this song is way beyond me at the moment but I will keep trying
thanks again
Laurie
Last Edited by Loz123 on Jan 24, 2014 10:47 AM
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Frank
3746 posts
Jan 24, 2014
3:23 PM
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Your welcome - Full Disclosure, I am not even close at being a Little Walter playing style expert - though I play one on Spanish TV....
I like you am a student and I'm sharing a small amount of acquired information compared to what a Pro player has to offer on all things Little Walter...But I enjoy trying to help and it is also very helpful to my progress as well when I share the little I may know.
Mastery will happen automatically as you continue to visit and study the tune...Don't concern yourself with a timeline
- you will Master the tune eventually -
the trick is not caring when or how long it will take...
Because it is a FACT that, Mastery will happen in it's own time -
when who knows,
but if you can careless when it arrives - it will show up one of these days, guaranteed :)
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Loz123
30 posts
Jan 25, 2014
9:24 AM
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Last question Frank
To achieve the affect Little Walter get when he
"delicately bites and chews a chord or partial chord while effortlessly articulating the melody note"
Is this because hes tongue blocking and if so can you achieve this affect when lip pursing
thanks
Laurie
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Frank
3753 posts
Jan 25, 2014
10:45 AM
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God only knows exactly what Little Walter is doing half the time - he is just that good and strong switching between techniques...
The studying student has to explore all the main blues techniques when tackling a LW phrase that has them stumped and figure out which one they want to use to get it to sound right.
That said Little Walter is a TBer ...and the underlying chordal rhythmic effect with practice and patience will eventually become a natural offshoot when using the TB technique, especially when learning to play his tunes and the swinging type of music he digs.
You can play his music or that tune lip pursing, you'll just need to adjust your imagination to get the results you want.
Last Edited by Frank on Jan 25, 2014 10:48 AM
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Shaganappi
93 posts
Feb 24, 2014
11:09 AM
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Loz123 - I know you said you don't use tab much but if you have not figured out it already, this may help some (have shown the hook to illustrate per the chording question you had) - note at 6+ or 5+ means blow,with plain numbers as draws. "t" indicates tongue blocking (5t=2&5 draw or 6+t=3&6 hole blow) …
/[4'4]6+ - 4 /5 - 5+ - / or /[4'4t]6+t - 4t /5t - 5+t - / =0:47
To your question per tongue blocking, you can get the idea from the above per how I think LW is doing it (the above shows more clearly on my web page). LW plays a "bit" better than I do, so don't take my word for it. I am struggling too.
My answer is that it will sound a LOT better if you put the octaves in. But as an alternative, one could substitute chords (or whispers) instead of the tongue splits here and still manage some of the body that he achieves so well.
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