Philosofen
1 post
Jan 01, 2014
1:57 PM
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Hey guys. Been trying to learn to play the harmonica several times, but I every time I've ended up giving up. The reason for this is I can't figure out what the next step for me is.
I know how to hold the harmonica, I know how to blow single notes, and I know bending. I know the blues scale even though I can't play it very fast. My handeffects are alright, my throat vibrato is non-excistent. I know the mannish boy lick. Blues is my life so I know how the 12 bar blues, and the progressions etc work.
My problem is that I know almost no riffs or licks, and I've got no feeling for improv yet, so I can't just sit down and jam along with my blues vinyls.
The point is I don't know where to go from here to progress. It seems like every book, dvd or youtube lesson is first step lessons (like bending, single notes etc) or solostuff that are way out of my reach yet.
I would really appreciate some help. I can't wait to be able to jam along with Junior Wells and some of my other guys!
Thanks!
/Phil
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Mirco
68 posts
Jan 01, 2014
10:43 PM
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It sounds like Adam's Advanced Beginner package would be perfect for you. It sounds like you have a solid foundation-- single notes, bends, and blues theory-- but you want to start adding to your riff vocabulary. Adam's Advanced Beginner will get you playing four songs to different grooves.
If you're looking for riffs only, I have heard great things about Ronnie Shellist's riff lessons, available at harmonica123.com.
I also very strongly recommend Jon Gindick's harp books. Specifically, "Rock N Blues Harmonica". All of Gindick's stuff is geared towards jamming and playing in public. So, less riffs but more teaching you what to play and when, and lots of practice.
Good luck. Keep us posted on how you're doing.
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jbear
59 posts
Jan 02, 2014
1:53 AM
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Have you got friends to form a band with or a jam session to go to?
For me, the next step was that impetus to learn a small number of specific songs properly, start to end, without skipping any of the important bits.
Once you've copied and learned a few solos such that you can play them without thinking, that's when things really sink in - after that, you'll find it comes out almost without thinking and that's the improv bit.
At least that's what seems to be happening with me.
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Baker
361 posts
Jan 02, 2014
1:54 AM
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Hi Philosofen. I would also recommend downloading some of Adams lessons form the "Store" on this site. They're pretty inexpensive and will really help you get some new material and start building up some riffs, licks and muscle memory.
I'd also recommend downloading some jam tracks, try these to start with – http://gc.guitarcenter.com/battleoftheblues/tracks/index.cfm – Work with the blues scale over these, this is will help you start getting a feel for improvisation.
Good luck.
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MindTheGap
148 posts
Jan 02, 2014
2:07 AM
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Philosofen - I know what you mean. I think learning the harp on your own is a bit odd compared to other instruments, in that you are encouraged to learn techniques and scales, then expected to start improvising! Other instruments, you learn a bit of technique then play simple-but-effective pieces and work your way up like that. The idea that you would learn piano by practising scales and chords, then start improvising and comparing yourself unfavourably to Buxtehude would be crazy (for Buxtehude read Adam, Kim Wilson, Little Walter etc or all the experienced improvisers who post on this site).
I agree with Mirco that buying Adam's packages is a good way forward, either the pack or one-off songs. I see it as that Adam's free tutorial videos lay out the rudiments of technique, and the paid-for lessons are about learning songs in the more conventional way.
Another approach is to concentate on comping rather than soloing. The emphasis there is on repetition and gives space to contribute musically to a song with simpler playing.
Can I introduce you to the beginners thread, and encourage you to post about how you get on...
http://www.modernbluesharmonica.com/board/board_topic/5560960/5458078.htm
Last Edited by MindTheGap on Jan 02, 2014 2:08 AM
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The Iceman
1359 posts
Jan 02, 2014
8:00 AM
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the obvious next step is to hook up one on one with a teacher who will have a program to move you forward.
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The Iceman
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Frank
3627 posts
Jan 02, 2014
8:24 AM
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Hey guys. "Been trying to learn to play the harmonica several times, but I every time I've ended up giving up. The reason for this is I can't figure out what the next step for me is".
The actual real reason you are quitting, unbeknownst to you... is because there is no next step to take.
Stay on the step you're already on...What's the rush to get to the next step...
The next step will be hand delivered to the door of your heart in due time -
till then re-master those things that you never really did Master in the first place...
and when the next step does arrive, you will "open" the door with gratitude and graciously ask that step to find solace in the bosom of your heart :) :)
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The Centipide Saloon
Tip Your Waiter Please
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Kingley
3357 posts
Jan 02, 2014
8:41 AM
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Philosofen - You're still at the beginner stage. You basically have three paths to go down.
1. Try Adam Gussows free YouTube lessons. Start at lesson number one and follow each lesson in turn. Only move onto the next one when you can really play the previous lesson competently. That should occupy you for the rest of the year and give you a good solid foundation on which to build. There are also lots of other subscription online courses available. The best of which is probably www.bluesharmonica.com.
2. Sit with those records and listen to them properly. Work out what key the songs are in, then on each track that has harmonica try and play what the player on the record is playing note for note. Take it one section at a time and don't move forward until you can play that first piece correctly.This is pretty much how all the great players around today learnt their craft.
3. Get in person or Skype lessons from a good teacher and follow the advice they give you.
It takes time, effort and a hell of a lot of patience to learn to play any musical instrument. It doesn't happen overnight for anyone. Most reasonably competent players have at least ten years or more under their belt. The jamming along thing will come in time as you learn the solid foundational skills and progress further up the ladder.
Last Edited by Kingley on Jan 02, 2014 8:47 AM
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Rick Davis
2818 posts
Jan 02, 2014
8:49 AM
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Skype lessons from my friend Ronnie Shellist:
www.Harmonica123.com
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-Little Rick Davis
The Memphis Mini harp amp
The Blues Harp Amps Blog
The Mile High Blues Society
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Seven.Oh.Three.
256 posts
Jan 02, 2014
8:59 AM
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Lot's of great input already. I agree that you should check out Adam's lessons. Here's why, he'll teach you a song. Learn the song, download a version of it and jam along. Learn the timing of the song and where to play each phrase. Then I'd download some of Ronnie's blues licks from Harmonica 123. They're really great learning tools and will give you some generic licks to add to your playing and help you when it comes to improvising. The third thing I'd do (if you're not already tongue blocking) is check out Lee Sankeys youtube series on TBing.... IMHO it's the best out there.
I suggest all this because I'm experiencing the exact same thing! This has been my new approach. It's fairly inexpensive and will give you plenty of stuff to practice.
I've been talking with a skype instructor to get a few lessons under my belt to help me get out of this current "funk".
Good luck and don't give up!
7.o.3.
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Greg Heumann
2539 posts
Jan 02, 2014
9:08 AM
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Lessons are great - if you learn best that way. Not everyone does. Here's another idea.
Listen to blues. Listen to blues harp. Pick your favorite tunes. Learn to play the solo note for note. NOT so you can then play the solo later on note for note, although that is OK - 99.8% of your audience will have never heard it and there's nothing new under the sun anyway. But because it will teach you licks. Every possible combination of notes, rhythms, punctuation - requires consciousness at first to learn and play, and then becomes part of your "muscle memory". The more licks you've learned, the more prepared you are to "improvise".
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***************************************************
/Greg
BlowsMeAway Productions
See my Customer Mics album on Facebook
BlueState - my band
Bluestate on iTunes
Last Edited by Greg Heumann on Jan 02, 2014 9:09 AM
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ReedSqueal
485 posts
Jan 02, 2014
3:50 PM
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Here's a really good overview of the learning process. Probably not directly applicable to your direct question but this may help keep it all in perspective during the learning journey. It did for me.
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"You hear that cat...On the Harmonica?....That's the Canned Heat!"
-John Lee Hooker, Boogie Chillen'
Last Edited by ReedSqueal on Jan 02, 2014 4:00 PM
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JInx
699 posts
Jan 03, 2014
2:03 AM
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now if you got the lick, you just need the riff and you're all set
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Sun, sun, sun
Burn, burn, burn
Soon, soon, soon
Moon, moon, moon
Last Edited by JInx on Jan 03, 2014 2:07 AM
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SteamrollinStan
113 posts
Jan 03, 2014
3:37 AM
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Practice mate, its a bugger of an instrument to play it properly, 5-6 years and i'm still hopeless.
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jbone
1456 posts
Jan 03, 2014
4:10 AM
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I'm sort of old school. I learned the hard way over a very long time. It seems to me the dream of a lot of us has been to be a great lead player right out of the gate, it was for me even though I had no tools!
After many years I finally got it- just kick back and do rhythm parts and a fill here and there. Relax. Have some fun playing along with stuff. challenge myself, throw some different music on the box like jazz, swing, country, funk, and work out the rhythm stuff on those.
Ultimately- ready or not- find some partners in crime and jam up the living room for a while,. Spend some time learning to fit stuff together and have good musical conversation.
Lessons is a great idea if you need them but it sounds to me like you have a lot of the pieces already, you just need to fit them where they go.
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http://www.reverbnation.com/jawboneandjolene
https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100000386839482
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wa7La7yYYeE
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Frank
3634 posts
Jan 03, 2014
4:14 AM
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"I know the mannish boy lick".
Every lesson, indeed every step can be found within this one lick.
Revisit it, this time though - Master the entirety of what it has to teach you -
explore it from head to toe, every square centimeter of it. There is a world of knowledge and answers awaiting to be discovered in that lick,
climb it to the top of enlightenment and you will find there that YOU, yourself are the staircase to infinite musical possibilities :)
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arzajac
1242 posts
Jan 03, 2014
4:52 AM
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I don't see the harmonica being different than any other instrument. The vast majority of people learn an instrument fastest by taking lessons. It's the easiest way.
Some of the best musicians I know - some with 35 years of experience playing saxophone, piano, voice or harp - still take lessons whenever they can.
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Custom overblow harps. Harmonica service and repair.
Last Edited by arzajac on Jan 03, 2014 4:52 AM
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LSC
568 posts
Jan 03, 2014
9:08 AM
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+ 1,000,000 for Greg's advise. Back in the day we had to learn from vinyl, continuously relocating the needle on the required passage. Now it is much easier with CDs or if you're a bit clever you can record on your computer just the section you are focusing on and play it on a loop.
One tip, especially for something you may be having difficulty with, is to sing the part in question to program your brain.
As to lessons, I'm sure Adam, Ronnie and the others that were mentioned are great, though I've never taken a look. What I can highly recommend is Jerry Portnoy's lesson series on Sonic Junction. Jerry starts with some basic techniques but then quickly applies them to specific song examples. He also turns it around and picks a song then breaks it down into sections. A couple of his lessons involve his philosophy of playing in general. His comments on how to play a slow blues with tension and release using as an example a video of his own live performance of Blues in a Dream is worth the price of admission alone.
His rate is $19.95 a month which gets you a lesson every week plus he will give you feedback if you can video or record something to send to him. It also gets you the lesson program from Duke Robillard (electric guitar) and Cory Harris (country blues guitar).
Ultimately there is nothing better than the graft of sitting down with the record and going over and over. That's why I like Portnoy's approach. He plays it through in real time then deconstructs it for you.
One other thing, I've learned over the years. Sometimes you will work your ass off on a part and just can't seem to get it. But then you walk away from it for a day or two and when you pick it up again suddenly it's there. It's like the brain simply needs time to grow the neural connections.
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LSC
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LSC
Last Edited by LSC on Jan 03, 2014 9:13 AM
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Kingley
3364 posts
Jan 03, 2014
9:19 AM
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"Sometimes you will work your ass off on a part and just can't seem to get it. But then you walk away from it for a day or two and when you pick it up again suddenly it's there. It's like the brain simply needs time to grow the neural connections"
Very true indeed LSC.
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harpfox
21 posts
Jan 03, 2014
10:50 PM
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just have fun with it!
don't be results oriented...just create the conditions for those breakthroughs to occur.
stray from your comfort zones once in a while...
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MagicPauley57
156 posts
Jan 04, 2014
7:13 AM
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Just to reiterate the vid from Lee Sankey, which was right on the money, you can't expect instant results, ear training is so important, and also getting the feel , I'm no expert and do play in order to be. Seen as one, but like guitar, I hear a lot of people when playing, that they're noodling. ( loads of licks that say nothing and are unconnected) .
Also listen to wind instruments, piano ,organ and guitar, try and incorporate what they're playing.
I also learnt like Lee Sankey and many others,by listening to as much as I could and getting it in there!
It's good sometimes to just pick one thing to learn, say bending, and spend ages doing that until you can do it well, move on to another technique that you can already dofor a break then see how you can make them work together, sometimes it's also good to put it down if things get stale, go away from it for a week or so, listen to some more, go to see a gig etc for a bit of inspiration.
I'm learning to play swing/ jazz guitar, it's very different to what I'm used to, but slowly, I'm picking, and lifting elements of it to improve my sound.
At the same time it's helping my ear get better for playing 3 rd position on harp etc, so it's got to be worth it, and meeting New people, stick with it!
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bublnsqueak
17 posts
Jan 06, 2014
2:13 AM
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Been watching this thread with interest because I am in the exact same position as the OP.
I had a bit of an epiphany in the car on my commute this morning (its where I practice). Thought I'd share.
Several things came together in my head:
1. Students make simple things hard - currently helping a person into employment who asked me what a CV was. I'd assumed everyone knows that.
2. All the advice above is good but doesn't really answer the question (for me). Wondered why.
3. I often hear people talking about soloing/improvising being "more than just running up and down the scale."
4. Recently watched a video of Richard Sleigh using a metronome to practice and he was moving up and down the scale (beautifully I might add).
So, I'm tootling along in my car practicing a few tunes and got going on the blues scale. My attention was diverted by the driving for a second and when I got back to the scale the disruption sounded cool. After that I worked out lots of the "dooby de boo boo dip dip" type licks in my head, usually starting and finishing on the tonic. Smiled all the way to work!
So so simple: tootle about within the scale to find the little tunes in your head. I can't remember them but I can make them up. Looking forward to the drive home.
Probably too simple to be worthy of comment by experienced players but a breakthrough for me!
I think the 'too simple' problem affects those of us who learn at home (isolated). The pros forget to mention it, and the learners think it 'must' be more complicated than that. So it gets ignored.
So thanks for the thread and hope that helps.
Paul
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harpfox
23 posts
Jan 06, 2014
2:46 AM
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the harmonica is like a woman....
she rewards persistence!
just when your about to leave she lets you in on a new secret!
the frustration is a good sign..it means your on the verge of a breakthrough...
even super skilled harp players go through plateaus in their playing..and then a paradigm shift opens up a whole new terrain...
-->no book, dvd, etc..will make you a great musician..only you!
--> were lucky because harmonica knowledge is so available as its never been in the past.
--> the reason you don't know the next step..is you don't know what question's to ask..this takes time.
but you'll notice as you play, questions will come to you. and only then can you get answers..
also, dont worry about not having any licks etc..
play merry had a little lamb and simple shit..pre-school music. because you have the song in your head as clear as day!
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MindTheGap
152 posts
Jan 06, 2014
3:44 AM
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There's plenty of great advice been given here. harpfox - I do like your 'just enjoy it' thing because unless you are enjoying playing whatever you are playing right now, there's little point. All the way to Lee Sankey's truthful and heartfelt, but slightly depressing, message that it takes years of dedicated practice to become any good. On any instrument.
I expect that the answer to Philsofen's 'next step' will be a personal one, but the common factor for learners-without-a-teacher is that you might know where you want to get to (e.g. sounding like player x or y) and you have unprecedented access to learning materials, but actually you have to do something today, and do something tomorrow and the next day. And take many, many steps to get there. If you have a teacher, then they can take you along the path at the correct pace without having to expose the whole journey. And they can prepare lots of satisfying stops on the way - i.e. you can hear you are playing good but possibly simple music along the way.
What is the answer? Get a teacher as Iceman says. But blues harp teachers are thin on the ground for many people. And not all teachers are right for all students. What we really need is a mentor, which could be a teacher or someone else. Even harder to arrange. And a mentor over Skype? Hmmm.
Do you have any comment on what you have read here, Philosfen?
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MindTheGap
153 posts
Jan 06, 2014
3:59 AM
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bublnsqueak - Glad to hear about your epiphany! It's just this kind of thing that would be good to expand on in the Beginner's Thread. It might be something that helps another learners, or even it's just good to celebrate your personal breakthrough. This is the place to write more about it, post some examples, encourage others...
Musicians don't just appear fully formed from the woodshed! There are steps, jumps, leaps...sometimes even forward.
Last Edited by MindTheGap on Jan 06, 2014 3:59 AM
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bublnsqueak
18 posts
Jan 06, 2014
6:10 AM
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Feel free to copy me over there and qoute me in this context.
I'm on Android at the moment - a bit clunky!
Paul
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