|
Dirty-South Blues Harp forum: wail on! >
Chord-Tone vs. Chord-Scale Soloing
Chord-Tone vs. Chord-Scale Soloing
Page:
1
Frank
3463 posts
Dec 10, 2013
3:22 PM
|
Chord-Tone vs. Chord-Scale Soloing
by Professor Hal Crook
For the past few decades or so, more and more jazz players have been using the chord-scale approach for soloing over chords in progressions. The chord-scale approach is based on the idea that if a chord is diatonic to a scale, then that scale can be used as a source to derive melody on that chord.
Using the chord-scale approach gives improvisers (especially less proficient ones) greater melodic and rhythmic mobility (i.e., they can improvise pitch sequences in eighth notes, triplets, sixteenth notes, etc.). Whereas chord tones must be played in leaps (minor third intervals or wider), a chord scale can be played in steps (major and minor second intervals), and consecutive steps are much easier to play fast and accurately than consecutive leaps. In general, less-experienced players are also familiar with scales and scale patterns than chord arpeggios from practicing technical exercises in method books and, therefore, prefer to use chord scales for improvising.
A chord scale contains not only the tones of the chord to which it is applied, but also the tensions. Therefore, by improvising on a chord using a chord scale, the soloist will almost certainly play some chord tones and some of the more colorful notes (tensions) as well. It is likely that without the help of chord scales, a soloist may not know (i.e., be able to hear) specifically what tensions fit the chord tones appropriately in a particular harmonic context.
So, in a sense, chord scales do the work of and for the ear. They enable an improviser to play active melody lines that not only agree with the chords, but also contain the more colorful melody notes (i.e., notes other than chord tones) that the player may not be able to find or select by ear alone.
However, for beginner and intermediate-level players, the chord-scale approach has a potential downside. Many students begin studying chord scales early in their musical education and attempt to apply the knowledge acquired immediately on their instruments. Unfortunately, this often happens too soon in the student's development as an improviser--before he or she has learned how to shape an appealing improvised melody by ear on a chord or chord progression using only, or mainly, chord tones.
Last Edited by Frank on Dec 10, 2013 3:22 PM
|
Frank
3464 posts
Dec 10, 2013
3:23 PM
|
Chord scales can present too much information, or information that cannot be readily processed, controlled, and used musically by the novice improviser. It is much easier to understand chord-scale theory than it is to apply it with musical results in an improvised solo. Improvising on chords with chord scales means that a soloist can play melody notes that he or she does not recognize or cannot identify and control by ear. This can result in wandering, shapeless, directionless, or mechanical-sounding melody lines. Often the lines are played in eighth notes to the exclusion of all other rhythm values, producing undesirable melodic and rhythmic content. Such improvised melodies often tend to outline tonic quality on nontonic functioning chords and vice versa.
Direction changes in the melodic curve are also somewhat less frequent because the rhythms are predominantly eighth notes and are less noticeable because of the predominance of stepwise motion. (Melodic intervals wider than a second or a third are less common if not rare in elementary-level improvised solos using the chord-scale approach.) This produces a consistently linear melodic line that sounds limited or uninteresting because it is not balanced by more angular melodic curves.
It is relevant to point out here that the pioneers of jazz improvisation relied on their listening/hearing skills and their ability to accurately outline basic chord sound to guide their improvising and to create inspired melodies. They did not rely on the mechanics of chord scales. Beginning improvisers should, therefore, first experience how good it sounds and how right it feels to play inside the chords using only the chord tones before experiencing the allure and sophistication of chord scales. Improvising melodies using only chord tones connects the soloist to the song's harmony, giving him or her a feeling of oneness with the music. This is essential before a player can hear how to use chord scales and nonharmonic approach notes effectively.
Ideally, melodic ear training for improvisers should begin with chord-tone soloing and then advance to chord tones with approach notes and/or chord scale soloing.
----------
The Centipide Saloon
Tip Your Waiter Please
Last Edited by Frank on Dec 10, 2013 3:24 PM
|
Komuso
248 posts
Dec 10, 2013
5:36 PM
|
Nice article!
Hey Frank, could you also include the link to the original article as well please, when you do these sort of posts?
Chord-Tone vs. Chord-Scale Soloing
This
Chord-Tone vs. Chord-Scale Soloing Thread discussion has some interesting comments, though I think some of them are a bit anal retentive. It's not about teaching people to improvise like robots to a formula.
The original article is basically talking about reducing cognitive overload to enhance learning by taking a simpler approach for beginners ie: ChordTone vs heading straight for ChordScales, and even reinforces that point in the last two paras.
Ultimately it's about using the most efficient methods to help you build a mental model to be able to navigate the fretboard, keyboard, harpboard or whatever in real time, intuitively.
But as the last poster in the 2nd link says: And let's not forget the biggest factors: RHYTHM and PHRASING
or you could always just use the "Embellish the Melody" approach;-)
----------
Paul Cohen aka Komuso Tokugawa
HarpNinja - Your harmonica Mojo Dojo
Bringing the Boogie to the Bitstream
Last Edited by Komuso on Dec 10, 2013 6:37 PM
|
Frank
3466 posts
Dec 10, 2013
6:50 PM
|
How to Borrow Rhythmic Phrasing
January 31, 2012 — By, John Thomas Mumm
Many young musicians (and perhaps old ones as well) believe that an original artist is one who creates without influence. I will admit to having held such beliefs myself in my late teens. This absurd idea is built on the assumption that an artist can create without influence. But try as you might, you will fail (unless you use techniques to make your compositions truly random, but then this has already been done as well!). The mind of a musician, whether consciously or unconsciously, is constantly rearranging materials that are already out there. That brilliant melody that appeared to you as if by magic? It was almost certainly a result of this process. This is not a bad thing; it doesn’t make you a hack. The line between originality and unoriginality is in fact drawn in much more subtle ways than the question of influence. It is how you borrow that matters. Did you transform those materials into something new? This, I’m suggesting, is the important question, and the only one that makes sense.
So if we’re already borrowing and working on the musical ideas of other people anyway, why not do it self-consciously as well? That’s what this series is about, getting you to build on one (and only one) element from a song you love and place it in a different context. If you put in a little effort, your result will never remind anyone of the song you borrowed from. It will be as new and original as a song can be.
I want to start with a method that might initially strike you as unoriginal and derivative. But just try it out and see what happens. There’s no harm in singing something to yourself.
THE EXERCISE
Choose a melody that you love. Now start singing the melody over and over, and as you do, tap your finger along with every note. What you’re doing is working out the rhythmic phrasing of the melody. Once you’ve got it, stop singing and just continue tapping. That’s the pure rhythmic content of the melody, and that’s what you’re going to work from.
Now try to sing some completely different notes to that same rhythm. Particularly at first, focus on keeping your melody as different from the original as possible. Keep going until you get something you like.
As your new melody comes to life, play around with changing the rhythm in subtle ways to better suit your idea. You’ll probably find that you can consciously start sculpting it into something new. In fact, you may have naturally done this as you formed your melody. This is because each melody has its own demands, so to speak.
If you’ve followed these instructions, then you’ve just created something new out of pre-existing materials. And that’s what I mean by the art of borrowing.
Last Edited by Frank on Dec 10, 2013 6:54 PM
|
Frank
3467 posts
Dec 10, 2013
6:53 PM
|
WHY DOES THIS WORK?
The rhythmic phrasing of a melody is an important part of its overall feel, and sense of unity and drive. One of the weaknesses of melodies written by beginners is that they lack rhythmic sophistication. If you borrow the phrasing from a melody you love, then you know you’ll be working from a strong basis.
Now pick up your guitar, play some chords, and write a new melody using the same rhythm. One interesting exercise would be to see how many different songs you can generate from the same rhythmic material.
BUT AREN’T I A THIEF NOW?
In case you’re starting to feel guilty, how about this for a bit of interesting trivia. Music historian Spencer Leigh discovered that Paul McCartney’s “Yesterday” is almost identical to an earlier hit, “Answer Me” by Frankie Lane, in terms of its rhythmic phrasing (see his Brother, Can You Spare a Rhyme?). Beginning from the word “yesterday” in both songs, you’ll find identical phrasing up until the last “erday” in McCartney’s version. [It's my personal opinion that if we had diligent scholars working overtime, we'd find endless examples of this kind of overlap.]
Now I don’t know about you, but if it weren’t for the fact that the songs share some lyrical phrases, I don’t think anyone would associate them. Rhythmic phrasing is only one musical element among many; it is only in the context of the whole that any one element takes on its sound and meaning.
You might still be worried that your song is too similar to the original. That’s good, and it’s a good reason to use an exercise like this as a jumping off point. Don’t ultimately use the same rhythmic phrasing verbatim. Mix it up a little as your new melody develops, just as I’ve described above.
Rhythmic Phrasing
|
walterharp
1249 posts
Dec 10, 2013
7:29 PM
|
One small thing that the first article does not apply to on diatonic harp.. Some chords are andeasier way out on harp, and that makes for less interesting soloing. The article assumes you have to jump to get to a chord, but many times the transition from two unbent blow or draw holes is the fastest transition, so that is the easy way out. That said, Ricci emphasizes the scale-based approach which is great but a chord-based approach certainly has its merits. Then the scale becomes a way to get to the next chord.. but I guess then they end up being mostly the same thing.
|
timeistight
1444 posts
Dec 10, 2013
8:31 PM
|
The one beef I have with the "chord scale movement" is that it sort of suggests all seven notes are equally cool, when in fact that's really not the case. There really are usually four notes you want to land on that are the really, really, good ones. Then there are the others you want to get through and some you barely want to touch them. That degree of weight thing is usually not discussed because it is usually presented in the form of modal thinking rather than voice leading. My advice to people is yes, learn the chord scales but also make sure you can solo using just the chord tones. A big chunk of early jazz history was largely improvising using chord tones and improvising around the melody. Those are two valuable entry points. --Pat Metheny
Last Edited by timeistight on Dec 10, 2013 8:33 PM
|
Komuso
249 posts
Dec 10, 2013
8:43 PM
|
@timeistight "The one beef I have with the "chord scale movement" is that it sort of suggests all seven notes are equally cool, when in fact that's really not the case."
I'm not sure anyone seriously suggests they are equal. (sorry pat!)
For example:
How Scales and Intervals REALLY Work : Interval dynamics has a really good explanation of how they differ, flavor wise.
A good summary table is here:
Emotional Effects of Intervals
@Walterharp Good point. Jason also makes some good points re: major minor switching differences between minor tuned harps and richter in this video. (borrowed from the summertime thread..ty!)
But I think tuning choice is dictated by the song and what you want to express. For some tunes harmonic minor tuning is all you need.
----------
Paul Cohen aka Komuso Tokugawa
HarpNinja - Your harmonica Mojo Dojo
Bringing the Boogie to the Bitstream
Last Edited by Komuso on Dec 10, 2013 8:51 PM
|
hannes
11 posts
Dec 11, 2013
12:57 AM
|
Frank - I find this article about Chord-Tone vs. Chord-Scale Soloing very interesting. But jazz players deal with frequently changing 4 and 5 note chords, which gives them a lot more melodic freedom for improvisation, and jazz improvisation is almost always melodic, whereas usually blues improvisation tends to be more lick- and riff-based. Also, that approach leaves you with the flat 3rd as the only blue note, if I am correct. Maybe chord-tone soloing is useful to start working on a more melodic approach even in the blues, but I am a beginner as far as blues improvising is concerned. Should I just start out with riffs and licks or learn both ways from the beginning ?
|
The Iceman
1319 posts
Dec 11, 2013
5:58 AM
|
Good article.
It's all about tension and release, or a feeling of gravity pulling.
The tonic is the ultimate resting place. Everything else moves away from the tonic and is pulled back towards it in different degrees.
To learn the subtle feel behind this is the goal. Starting with chord tones is the best way to begin to understand this concept.
After this, one by one, each of the other scale tones should be explored with the idea of feeling the "pull" within these notes.
Remember, even though it may be intellectually explained through theory, it's the "feel" that is most important to understand.
----------
The Iceman
|
Frank
3468 posts
Dec 12, 2013
8:40 AM
|
“Should I just start out with riffs and licks or learn both ways from the beginning”?
Brother Hannes,
If you can GROOVE with (the chord tones, you can add 6ths and 7ths etc.) as a songs structure passes by in time…Then that GROOVE you got going will be the springboard for further inspiration as well as confidence to color the song with other notes as the spirit moves you.
Learning to Goove with the chord tones is a [discipline] in which the reward is gaining the FREEDOM to play music with genuine power from your feelings and guts.
Learning riffs and licks is good practice too…. Eventually you should take the time to “understand why" these licks are so POTENT…
Doing that will give you the opportunity to make them (your own) and truly express those same notes anyway YOU see fit :)
Last Edited by Frank on Dec 12, 2013 9:18 AM
|
hannes
14 posts
Dec 12, 2013
1:06 PM
|
Brother Frank - you did it. Like the Zen master who hits his disciple with a stick your words hit me right in the face. Let me explain: yesterday I was trying to improvise a simple 12 bar blues only with chord tones. I couldn't do it, it felt restricted, it sounded horrible. In my attempt to improvise I had completely forgotten about GROOVE. You made me realize that GROOVE is the river that carries everything. Once you can GROOVE, the separation between riffs and licks or melodic improvisation becomes meaningless, as you can move freely from one end of the scale to the other (if you've done your homework, obviously).
Thank you
|
Frank
3472 posts
Dec 13, 2013
4:21 AM
|
Hannes, my brutha from another mutha…you share the third eye of the sages from a thousand yesteryears! Now that this revelation has been revealed as true indeed to your super consciousness,there can be no looking back. Let the mind expand its view from this revealed truth and continue to extract the infinite lessons that begin with the groove of a single note. Every groove is encapsulated within one note and every melody is birthed from a single interval. Relax, slow down and above never rush your progress…Progress, like a wild stallion running free amongst the prairies must be harnessed, tamed and taught to slow down and take direction from its master. Mediocrity is born from piling more information onto a players musical plate before they have fully digested the meal in front of them...Duke Ellington states it this way, “The wise musicians are those who play what they can master” :)
Last Edited by Frank on Dec 13, 2013 4:32 AM
|
GamblersHand
477 posts
Dec 13, 2013
7:37 AM
|
Interesting stuff but I suspect I'm not really understanding this - is Chord-Tone simply base your solos on the tones that make up a chord - e.g. C E G Bb against C7?
And same example for Chord-Scales to use any of C D E F G A Bb against C7?
If so, I can understand the concept in jazz where the chord changes are every bar or half bar, but in blues, folk, rock etc with fewer changes this would get a little monotonous?
|
Frank
3474 posts
Dec 13, 2013
7:44 AM
|
James...monotony is the companion of a groove-less soul. Become the groove and a chord change becomes a moot point :)
|
GamblersHand
478 posts
Dec 13, 2013
8:07 AM
|
Frank - couldn't agree more, I'm a minimalist groove-based player by inclination... or maybe that's my excuse why my melodic playing is so mediocre
But I do like to throw in the occasional 2nd, 4th or 6th note into the mix - which I think is Chord-Scale playing? As I say, not sure I get the theory part of this.
|
Frank
3475 posts
Dec 13, 2013
9:29 AM
|
Your talking theory correctly...And I agree, add notes as the musical muse directs you...The great thing about groovin is, any "so-called wrong notes" are played in time... so they are simply just part of the groove.
Here is something to ponder... why do the masters always seem to never play a so-called wrong note…
Is it because they never do?
Or because they never screw up the groove or loose their timing?:)
Last Edited by Frank on Dec 13, 2013 9:57 AM
|
STME58
614 posts
Dec 13, 2013
10:05 AM
|
I have started taking some music lessons and I got this advice from my instructor, who advocates using a metronome for at least part of every practice session.
"Play the wrong note at the right time and few will even notice. Play the right note at the wrong time and, while your audiance may not hate you, they will probably ignore you"
|
Shaganappi
68 posts
Dec 13, 2013
10:57 AM
|
This is a great thread. Rhythm is so often left to the side when first learning. Correct notes are nice and "seem" more important when starting out on a tune, but that is seldom what is the real backbone of the best of music. Thanks for your reminders Frank.
|
Frank
3524 posts
Dec 17, 2013
3:12 PM
|
Little Snippet by Larry Carlton
|
Komuso
255 posts
Dec 17, 2013
8:38 PM
|
----------
Paul Cohen aka Komuso Tokugawa
HarpNinja - Your harmonica Mojo Dojo
Bringing the Boogie to the Bitstream
|
Frank
3526 posts
Dec 18, 2013
5:25 AM
|
Thanks Paul, what an incredible teaching series he has on youtube!!! Hal Galper is a GOLD MINE of W I S D O M, E X P E R T I S E and sound D I R E C T I O N :):) :) :) :)
|
Post a Message
|
