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Dirty-South Blues Harp forum: wail on! > LUNGBUSTIN' HARPS
LUNGBUSTIN' HARPS
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Grey Owl
403 posts
Dec 04, 2013
5:24 AM
The lowest harps I bought for many years of playing were in the key of G. Since taking up playing again after a long break I have bought a couple of new low key harps in F and D. Even these keys might be thought too shrill considering the new low, low keys on the block:)

A lot of the stuff I hear being played on low harps is chugging/chordal, but man, when you start bending or single note playing you have to shift a lot of air to get them moving and you seem to have to create a throat cavity the size of a football to get the low hole bends.

On this vid I’m playing a medly on a Big River harp in low D.

How do others find playing on low keys, techniques, breath control etc.,?



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Grey Owl YouTube
Sarge
369 posts
Dec 04, 2013
5:58 AM
I like the sound of the low harps, but they do take more air. I can handle the low keyed ones pretty well, but I have to make use of my nose to get and expel air at times. I had a low low F that I could play ok, but sure had to budget the air once I got it going. Dennis Gruenling makes great use of the low keyed harps.
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Wisdom does not always come with old age. Sometimes old age arrives alone.
harpdude61
1914 posts
Dec 04, 2013
7:43 AM
Great tone!
Grey Owl
404 posts
Dec 04, 2013
9:55 AM
Yes Sarge, breathing out through the nose helps. The problem being too much air is gathered in the lungs after successive draws. I felt the need to add those chords between each song to clear the surplus air. Are there any good vids showing Gruenling's technique or others technique especially single note riffs?

Thanks Harpdude!
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Grey Owl YouTube

Last Edited by Grey Owl on Dec 04, 2013 9:58 AM
barbequebob
2395 posts
Dec 04, 2013
10:24 AM
I use Low Eb harps quite a bi, as I can get a more horn like attack wheras the stock ones that are an octave higher can be at times unpleasantly shrill and you can't play with that kind of attack at all.

Many people think you have to use much more air to play lower pitched harps, but unfortunately, most players who do that tend to play way too damned hard and they make everything needlessly more difficult for themselves and it's as predictable as clockwork. What you should do is make some VERY SUBTLE adjustments with your embouchure as well as the inside shape of your mouth to allow for a wider air passage that doesn't need to have more air. 80% of the time, when players start to try to attempt this, I can place a bet and win huge money on the fact that they wil tend to heavily over exaggerate the adjustments and quickly give up.

I've learned how to do these things both tongue blocked as well as with the LP/pucker method. On the other hand, one method may be easier than the other for some based on one's natural shape of the inside of their mouths so it will take some woodshedding time to figutre it out.

With enough practice, getting the two bends on hole #2 draw and all 3 bends on 3 hole draw will be done, but it will take some woodshedding and finding the correct adjustment that becomes a sweet spot and then commit it muscle memory.

On a tune I've done with an uptempo T-Bone Walker groove, I'm playing a combination of horn oriented licks as well as jump/swing guitar oriented licks with some occasional double stops (AKA chord partials), but doing all of these things will take some work to achieve these things.

With many players, a huge problem is the fact that from holes 1-6 draw and 7-10 blow, which is where all the bends are, the average player's breath force is much too hard and the difference between the blow notes or draw notes in the same respective holes is often quite dramatic and that's something many players new to lower pitched harps have to be on the lookout for because they will quickly cause problems because of that.
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Sincerely,
Barbeque Bob Maglinte
Boston, MA
http://www.barbequebob.com
CD available at http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/bbmaglinte
HarpNinja
3627 posts
Dec 04, 2013
11:34 AM
I think the resonance chamber has to change, but breath pressure doesn't necessarily have to be great. If you leak air through your nose, that becomes an issue with low harps. A leaky harp also is more noticeable.

The action of the harp can help make it play better and feel faster. I haven't had to gap any Thunderbirds, but the Seydels I have are gapped a bit. If you get a double plated low harp with the action set, they play super easy.

I don't double plate standard keys, but lower than F have gotten to play quite a few. Matt Smart is a master at doing this.

I have a Low D from Dave Payne that plays really really well too.
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jeremy
16 posts
Dec 04, 2013
1:18 PM
Joe Filisko talks about low low harps and breathing in some of his guest contributions to Dave Barrett's bluesharmonica.com.
Grey Owl
406 posts
Dec 04, 2013
2:16 PM
Thanks for the feedback guys. My low D is a bit leaky and I have gapped it to get some improvement but it's still tough to play. I would love to play one well set up to see the difference.

With regard to breath force I am having to work hard to get sufficient volume. Playing soft does help but the volume produced with the leaky harp is not adequate. I don't think I'm a particularly hard player (I don't blow out reeds) but I like a certain amount of volume and room to change dynamics.

I'll see if I can find that Filisko piece.
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Grey Owl YouTube

Last Edited by Grey Owl on Dec 04, 2013 2:17 PM
lumpy wafflesquirt
759 posts
Dec 04, 2013
2:28 PM
I love the way a low D carries on vibrating when you stop blowing, even with gentle breathing

SP20 reedplates on bluesband comb with turbolids :^)

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"Come on Brackett let's get changed"

Last Edited by lumpy wafflesquirt on Dec 04, 2013 2:28 PM
Grey Owl
407 posts
Dec 04, 2013
2:30 PM
Yeah me too:) I once had a go at a low Bb and your stomach carries on vibrating when you stop blowing!
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Grey Owl YouTube
SuperBee
1568 posts
Dec 04, 2013
9:29 PM
i can just about play a lo Eb. i'm ok down to the 2 hole draw bends but the 1 hole still eludes me...
but, i couldnt play a lo F at first
i havent dared go below lo Eb

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Komuso
239 posts
Dec 04, 2013
11:26 PM
nah...this is a real lungbustin' harp! (literally)

The Pulmonica is a specially constructed and tuned Pulmonary Harmonica that produces deep, resonant, meditative sounds that can be felt vibrating in the lungs and sinuses. No musical talent is needed – just breathing through the Pulmonica always sounds great. Smooth edges and quality materials make it safe to handle and a joy to use.
About the Pulmonary Harmonica
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Paul Cohen aka Komuso Tokugawa
HarpNinja - Your harmonica Mojo Dojo
Bringing the Boogie to the Bitstream
Sarge
370 posts
Dec 05, 2013
6:38 AM
This is a video I made some time back while at work. I'm using a Low Low F.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ocA7f2yvseU

Sorry, don't know how to imbed.
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Wisdom does not always come with old age. Sometimes old age arrives alone.
Grey Owl
408 posts
Dec 05, 2013
7:40 AM
Superbee. Yeah, they seem to have a learning curve adapting embouchure to suit as Bob suggested. Trouble is the lower you go bending gets harder and harder. I'm trying to adjust my tongue more now to lessen the need for creating a huge throat cavity.

Komuso. 'The Pulmonica is a specially constructed and tuned Pulmonary Harmonica ..... No musical talent is needed'

I really feel like I could excel with this instrument!

Thanks for that Sarge, allow me. Man that is loooow!

BTW if you want to embed it’s pretty straight forward:

Just go to the youtube video as if you were going to watch it,

then click on ‘share’ below the video.
From the new dropdown menu that appears, click on ‘embed’
Then copy the embed text that appears in a box and paste it into your forum post.

Your particular video code will look like this:

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/ocA7f2yvseU" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>




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Grey Owl YouTube

Last Edited by Grey Owl on Dec 05, 2013 7:53 AM
Komuso
241 posts
Dec 05, 2013
7:45 AM
Well technically no musical talent is needed to play a normal harp either!

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Paul Cohen aka Komuso Tokugawa
HarpNinja - Your harmonica Mojo Dojo
Bringing the Boogie to the Bitstream
Sherwin
102 posts
Dec 05, 2013
5:14 PM
I sat down a month or so ago determined to get the one hole half step bend on my stock M.B. 365. I remember Joe Filisko in a thunderbird promotional video remarking that the low keys were tough to bend and required some serious throat bending.......with that to go on, I tried using the part of my throat I use to play throat vibrato as the constriction....I was finally able to get the bend, not without pinching my nose to stop air coming in there.
While I am unable to play low end blues riffs including that half step bend, and can not gradually bend then unbend the note, I was pleased to simply get the note note to sound.

I do love blow bending on the 365, sounds to me like a clarinet almost.

I think people new to blow bending would find it easier on a harp like the low C M.B. and it could serve as a confidence builder.

Sherwin

Last Edited by Sherwin on Dec 05, 2013 5:16 PM


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