walterharp
1224 posts
Nov 20, 2013
7:56 PM
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Hi there,
I have been testing some things to get more clean headroom as I move away from a distorted sound that I used to like more. In doing so I have been running licks played on my looper through lots of bias, tone and tube settings on my amp which allows to hear things without the interference of actually playing, and hear the exact same thing again and again.
It seems to me that chords tend to break up the amp tone more than single notes and it seems a complex balance of factors. One possibility is that more notes are simply more sound power and that power is more likely to overdrive the amp. However, it also seems like it is a function of more overtones getting amplified when 2 or more notes are played simultaneously.
It got me thinking about playing volume.. do you guys roll back on volume automatically for chords or even doubles? Do cromatic players go to octaves for volume as the mic cups are harder with the big instrument? Just curious on all your thoughts on the issue.
Cheers,
Walter
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1847
1322 posts
Nov 20, 2013
8:24 PM
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do you guys roll back on volume automatically for chords or even doubles?
william clarke did not use a volume control
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i get a lot of request when i play my harmonica
"but i play it anyway"
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walterharp
1225 posts
Nov 21, 2013
6:14 AM
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sorry, i meant playing volume...
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harpwrench
726 posts
Nov 21, 2013
6:56 AM
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Here's a couple things to read if you haven't:
http://www.patmissin.com/ffaq/q26.html
http://patmissin.com/tunings/tun0.html
Difference tones can be a beast especially with a large amp, bullet and the bass knob wound up. Backing off the bass helps clarity because the diff tones are in that range.
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MindTheGap
61 posts
Nov 21, 2013
9:13 AM
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In that pat missin page, there is a clip of Corky Siegal making a feature of the super-low difference tone from a 3-4 draw.
In general do people try to enhance or reduce these tones in their playing?
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Greg Heumann
2471 posts
Nov 21, 2013
9:59 AM
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Not only might I back off on the wind power when playing a chord, I might loosen my cup just a tad as well. And I am in 10-0% agreement with what harp wrench just said above about difference tones.
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***************************************************
/Greg
BlowsMeAway Productions
See my Customer Mics album on Facebook
BlueState - my band
Bluestate on iTunes
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harpwrench
729 posts
Nov 21, 2013
11:28 AM
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This solo from Jason Ricci demonstrates what I'm talking about, for anyone interested. He's playing an Eb harp. Listen for the low root notes that aren't there on an Eb harp. This works cool when the harp is tuned for it (I tuned his to 19-limit JI). When the harp isn't tuned JI, these low notes will be out of tune with the chord.
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Rick Davis
2725 posts
Nov 21, 2013
11:43 AM
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Frank posted this a couple weeks ago:
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barbequebob
2384 posts
Nov 21, 2013
11:47 AM
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On a diatonic harp, especially when playing blues, where chording and double stops (AKA chord partials) are involved, this is where JI is still king for this stuff. ET tuned harps, because chords tend to sound very dissodent, often sounds exactly how harpwrech is describing it here.
When you hear chords played on a chromatic or a partially valved diatonic, they tend to sound smoother and warmer and the notes of the chord more in tune with the chord because the other phenomenon that's happening with the valves is that they also dampen the upper harmonic overtones on harmonica reeds, and the vast majority of those overtones are odd numbered, which the human ear percieve as harsh and out of tune. The dampening effect will never be as good as tuning the JI, but chords on ET tuned harps become mellower and rounder, but they do alter the tone when playing the individual notes.
When you play ET chords on harps without valving, the harder your breath force, the harsher and tinnier the chord sounds. With JI, regardless of breath force, will always sound warmer, fuller and more in tune with itself, tho more force will make it a bit more harsh because the way most players tend to play with too much breath force, the greater the emphasis on the harsh, odd numbered harmonic overtones (and thus the playing no longer is as resonant), but the difference in harshness is considerably more pronounced when playing an ET tuned harp.
The other thing about playing chords on a JI tuned harp is that the chords will also take on a more precussive quality as well.
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Sincerely,
Barbeque Bob Maglinte
Boston, MA
http://www.barbequebob.com
CD available at http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/bbmaglinte
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walterharp
1227 posts
Nov 22, 2013
6:28 AM
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Some interesting stuff here... Pat Missin's site states that the difference tone can be louder than the 2 tones played. also, the video of Jason makes it very clear he uncups on chords most of the time and cups on single notes
Other thoughts that occurred to me. It is not a given that an unamplified harp plays louder with chords.. you need to multiply the air you move by the number of notes, but my guess is that the way many people play is maintain even pressure, so each added note increases the volume by that much (just like a guitar.. which pisses me off when guitar players don't realize how really loud their chords are). If you play like Sonny Terry, you probably even try to make the chords louder and more percussive at times than the single notes..
Finally, my impression is that some of the difference tones are a function of the amp, that the circuit resonates or the speakers and cabinet resonate...
Has anybody sat in front of a really good volume meter and seen the difference in volume between chords and single notes? I am amazed looking at the recording trace how dynamic harmonica volume is overall.. need more practice recording amped up playing to get to work this better...
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