TBird
23 posts
Nov 10, 2013
6:11 PM
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After learning to tongue block, I soon learned how to add tongue tremolo to my playing. (By that I mean the effect achieved by the rapid moving of the tongue in and out or on and off the comb.) It still needs work, but it sure us fun!
That said, however, I know it would probably also be good for me to learn to tongue switch (or whatever you would like to call the effect created by rapid side to side movement of the tongue). Of course, I have been avoiding this because it seems really hard!
I think one of my biggest hang ups, however, is that I don’t have a very clear idea in my head of what it sounds like when done well and incorporated into top notch harp playing. I also have a feeling that I mistake a lot of tongue switch effects for tongue tremolo. Would you guys be willing to help me out with this by using this thread to compile some examples of great tongue switching? I think it would be a great inspiration to me and good training for my ears.
Thanks in advance!
T.Bird
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Frank
3232 posts
Nov 10, 2013
6:56 PM
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Little Walters "Oh Baby" is a showcase tune for that technique :) And the ole timer 1st position Masters used that on the high end in amazing ways too.
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WinslowYerxa
413 posts
Nov 10, 2013
7:11 PM
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Actually, the "Oh Baby" example is only one of many different kinds of tongue side-to-side movement.
The rapid alternation between two single notes on either side of the tongue whil keeping the middle holes blocked is what Walter did on "Oh Baby." I've given it the name "shimmer" and others have adopted it.
When you swish the tongue from side to side with several holes in your mouth and don't attempt to limit the sounding notes to just the ones in the corners, that's what i call a "Rake" - you're raking your tongue back and forth across the holes. Walter used that a lot.
Corner Witching is where you make a rapid leap between right and left corners as a melodic move, not as part of a texture as in a shimmer. This is used a lot by classical players to make fast, wide leaps cleanly, but Little Walter also used it. I don't have ready examples but I know that others can provide them.
There are also several techniques that involve removing the tongue from the harp and then placing it back on the harp.
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Winslow
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Frank
3233 posts
Nov 10, 2013
7:33 PM
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The Shimmer is a tough cookie to crack...but is as COOL a technique as it gets.
My Shimmers usually turn into a Rake fairly quickly.
Corner Switching evolved out of using octaves a lot for me.
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Gnarly
767 posts
Nov 10, 2013
7:38 PM
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Oh man there is so much of this stuff that I just have no concept of or mastery of.
I HAVE started trying to do the real corner switching, Bill Barrett got me started, he really has it down.
My left side is really lame--I'm a purser (not for a living or anything).
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WinslowYerxa
414 posts
Nov 11, 2013
11:21 AM
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Cultivate your left side - use it to play melodies just like you would use the left side or a pucker. Once you're more confident of it, you'll feel better about switching to it.
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Winslow
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bigd
505 posts
Nov 11, 2013
5:24 PM
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Any clear examples of the rake vs the shimmer. Also -and forgive my in articulation here but - you know that sound that Ronnie Shellist gets on his side-side two-note warble thing. It's perhaps the most overdone riff/sound (4-5 hole slide) that exists yet he does differently and masterfully? Thanks. d
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Frank
3256 posts
Nov 11, 2013
5:42 PM
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At 1:33 sec Walter throws one in for good measure :)
Check out his solo starting at 1:11 sec thru 1:35
Last Edited by Frank on Nov 11, 2013 5:50 PM
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puri
135 posts
Nov 11, 2013
6:41 PM
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Hmm, never pay close attention to Kim's "Oh, Baby", I've listened to it quite a lot but always thought that it's an on-off slaps. It's much clearer in Dennis' version that he's pretty much does an octave roll. I can do it too but most of the time I do the clean octave roll. Kim must let the 2 hole draw bleeds in with the 1 hole draw to add some crunch to it. That's very neat, he's just like De Niro on harp - every little bit counts. This little detail is amazing to me. I'll practice some more.
Oh, I might add, although some of you might know it already but it might benefits some that can't do it yet (or can but wonder why it doesn't sound right). Most of the time that the pros do this sort of techniques they tend to start with tongue pull (or similar tongue action) to articulate the technique, give it a sharp bite at the head of the note. It's a lot more effective that way.
Last Edited by puri on Nov 11, 2013 6:42 PM
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tmf714
2170 posts
Nov 12, 2013
7:09 AM
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At 3:30-
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tmf714
2171 posts
Nov 12, 2013
7:10 AM
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bigd
506 posts
Nov 12, 2013
7:50 AM
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Thanks T. That latter video (I feel that Lee Like Paul deLay had really unique harp voices!!) was instructive. If there were a mouth lottery I think I would rather win Lee's than anyone else: What a deep, articulate harp language that guy expresses himself with...
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mr_so&so
756 posts
Nov 12, 2013
10:10 AM
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I still have a lot to learn wrt TB techniques such as these. I believe Lee and Kim when they say it takes a long time to get them. I took the leap a few years ago to full-time TB for that reason. I felt like I was missing out on too much if I stuck to LP, and fell back to that default too often. After three years TBing, I feel like I can start to work on the shimmer, etc.
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TBird
24 posts
Nov 13, 2013
2:31 PM
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Thanks for the wealth of information! Of course, I didn't expect anything less. That's why I come here after all. Also fun to hear that a few others are interested in and working on this stuff too.
If you need me, I'll be in the wood shed...
T.Bird
P.S. I'm with you bigd, Lee is awesome!
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