Rick Davis
41 posts
Jan 04, 2010
10:43 AM
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I bought a few regular Marine Band harps with the wood comb. I like the tone, but after a few gigs the comb is starting to swell after playing for a while. The teeth of the comb barely protrude past the reed plates. It's not much, but it is uncomfortable.
I remember this from years ago when I was just starting out and I'd play my harps constantly. For the last 20 years or so I've used other harps.
Is there anything that can be done, short of sealing the comb with beeswax or something? I don't want to go to that extent with just a MB harp.
Any suggestions? What do you do about this Adam?
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-Rick Davis
Blues Harp Amps Blog
Roadhouse Joe Blues Band
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toddlgreene
341 posts
Jan 04, 2010
10:47 AM
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Rick, you'll find on here several threads about this. Flat-sanding and coating(mine are sealed with salad bowl finish)the comb, replacing the nails with screws, embossing, gapping, etc. turn the not-necessarily friendly stock MB into a wonderful thing. I hated them until I tried one that had been customized like this. Even if it's just removing/replacing the nails and then sealing the comb if you are already happy with it's playability, try it.
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~Todd L. Greene
crescentcityharmonicaclub@gmail.com
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congaron
382 posts
Jan 04, 2010
10:56 AM
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I just play it until it swells, then shave the extra off with an exacto knife, flush with the brass reed plate. When it skrinks back, it's slightly recessed, but not enough to matter...we're talking about the thickness of the paint on the tines, plus a tad more. On mine, only the middle tines were doing this on one harp so far. The D I bought a while ago doesn't seem to do it.
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barbequebob
290 posts
Jan 04, 2010
11:10 AM
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As far as the wood comb swelling, part of the problem is playing with a wet mouth. From a conversation I had with Rick Epping on the phone back in the mid 90's, when he answered a letter I sent to them about how far their quality had fallen at the time, one of the things he mentioned was that the combs that swelled were usually the ones that were cut too close to the knot of the tree.
When they went to the MS series with a wood comb, they went to an African wood called doussie, which was a harder wood more resistant to swelling (but it still did, tho not as easily as pearwood), but they're brittle and kinda hard sounding, and they really didn't want to seal the combs because it would add more money to the production line costs (and besides, they never really developed a manufacturing technique to do this right), and they came out with the MB Deluxe because Hering put a dent in their MB sales (something I had predicted on a review I had that used to be posted on the C2C website) with the 1923 Vintage Harp, which was partially sealed (meaning just around the outer edges rather than fully sealed).
Seydel was the first harp manufacturer to actually seal their wood combs fully, which is the right thing to do, but it was definitely much more expensive as it takes longer and the production line costs are a lot higher.
Richard Sleigh sells what he calls Marine Band kits, which are essentially the Marine Bands that he screw taps, FULLY seals, gets rid of the sharp edges, but the lower prices vs. one of his customs ($180 for a custom MB, but $50 for the MB kit), there is one huge difference, and that is the fact that you DON'T get the single most important ingredient of a custom harp, and that's the reed work, the biggest difference in the quality of customizer's work.
The MB Deluxe, like the Hering 1923 Vintage Harp, is only partially sealed, which for most people is fine, but if you really play with a very wet mouth (to the point of slobbering all over them), or play in a high altitude area or one with a very dry climate, a harp with a partially sealed comb can still swell.
Personally, the MB kit Richard sells at about the same price as the MBD has the sealing job done properly and it's still a better harp than the out of the box Marine Band or the Marine Band Deluxe.
Rick, beeswax is the cheapest sealing agent, but, and this IS important, it is NOT totally moisture proof and will need constant resealing if you play very frequently, and you have to use EXTREME caution when working with it or you can suffer a very serious and painful burn from the hot wax.
The wood combed version of the Seydel 1847, which uses a fully sealed maple comb is the best job done of just about any stock harp around, and according to Rupert Oysler, they use 5 coats of sealant, so that comb will NEVER swell on you at all, and the ones I have all have this comb. If you have the 1847 Silver and you want to check out a wood comb, you can order the wood combs directly from the Seydel website for about $20 each, but the correct screwdriver to use is a Pozidriv #0 and use extreme caution with the cover plate screws because the slot the screwdriver goes in gets easily shredded, even more so if you substitue a Phillips head screwdriver for a Pozidriv.
The MB Deluxe is sealed with shellac, which I personally don't think is that great a sealing agent. A nion blues chromatic player uses Krylon, but I think he uses a polyurethane based version as a spray on the wood combs of his Hohner 270's, and he's been doing that for about 50 years.
If you don't mind not getting the reed work that you'd get from a good quality custom harp, the Richard Sleigh MB kit at $50 each is a far better deal than the MB Deluxe is and the sealing job is done properly.
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Sincerely,
Barbeque Bob Maglinte
Boston, MA
http://www.barbequebob.com
CD available at http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/bbmaglinte
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Buddha
1226 posts
Jan 04, 2010
11:20 AM
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I have sealed Marine Band combs. $10each plus $5 shipping on the entire order.
I also have composite combs that are drilled for screws. $25 rough cut or $50 for the finished comb that is sanded perfectly flat. The raw combs are pretty flat from the machine process, much flatter than any stock comb.
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"The privilege of a lifetime is being who you are." - Joseph Campbell
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saregapadanisa
25 posts
Jan 04, 2010
11:40 AM
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Acrylic combs from Harponline worked great for me. They are not the cheapest (about 20 € if I remember correctly) but look great, make the harp easy to maintain and doesn't affect that MB tone.
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barbequebob
291 posts
Jan 04, 2010
11:42 AM
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That's a good deal there and I'm sure that's gonna be a far better sealing job than what you'd see coming out of the factory. One of the problems that Hohner's wod combs had especially during the 80's and 90's were the fact that they weren't sanded flat (that would mean higher production line costs) and I used to see sawmarks on the combs by the truckload because back then, they rarely resharpened the cutting blades any more frequently than about once every 5 years and at least they do it considerably more frequently now, but they still have some sawmarks on them, but not big gouges they used to have back then. Before I even heard about comb sealing, I often used to use Elnmer's wood carpenter's glue and actually glue the plates to the comb, and that was a pain in the a**!!!!
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Sincerely,
Barbeque Bob Maglinte
Boston, MA
http://www.barbequebob.com
CD available at http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/bbmaglinte
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barbequebob
292 posts
Jan 04, 2010
11:43 AM
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Acrylic (lucite) combs are great, as long as they're hand milled.
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Sincerely,
Barbeque Bob Maglinte
Boston, MA
http://www.barbequebob.com
CD available at http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/bbmaglinte
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robbo
11 posts
Jan 04, 2010
1:09 PM
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i solved the protruding comb problem the same way adam dose, soak the harp for a while then cut the protruding wood off with a knife.
Last Edited by on Jan 04, 2010 1:09 PM
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Rick Davis
42 posts
Jan 04, 2010
1:57 PM
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Robbo, is that what Adam Gussow does?
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-Rick Davis
Blues Harp Amps Blog
Roadhouse Joe Blues Band
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congaron
383 posts
Jan 04, 2010
4:56 PM
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If that is what Adam does, I can vouch for it working. I don't soak mine..just play it until it swells. Tongue block bending or overblow practice on a hole you can't do generates a lot of saliva...lol.
It's cheap and effective. Like I said, a little more than the thickness of the paint and it's good to go. $2 exacto knife if you don't have one. Or a razor box cutter.
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robbo
15 posts
Jan 04, 2010
5:27 PM
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@Rick, took a while but i found it http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yxECkgk4ZSM
Adam starts talking about it at 5:15. hope this helps.
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Zhin
372 posts
Jan 04, 2010
6:39 PM
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Rick, I believe Adam did say he does that with a pocket knife. Though I'm not sure if he still does right now. Hopefully he'll spot this thread and say something about it.
By the way, I'd be extremely careful about what I put on my harp combs. Do not use any kind of sealant unless you know EXACTLY what's in it and how long it will take for the VOC's to evaporate. Most people think you can just spray lacquer on the comb, leave it to dry for a week and it's all fine and dandy. Truth is there can still be a lot of toxic chemicals slowly being released from your comb. And we players huff and puff through these things so it really is something to be concerned about.
Even certain oils that may be using a solvent of some kind can be quite toxic.
From what I heard Butcher's Block is your best bet.
Personally, as someone who has learned how to customize his own harps from a master... I would rather get someone else to do this for me. Sealing harp combs the right way is a pain in the butt and my least favorite part of the customization process.
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http://www.youtube.com/harmonicazhin
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Rick Davis
43 posts
Jan 04, 2010
7:09 PM
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Robbo, thanks man, that is exactly what I was looking for.
I won't be sealing the comb, but I'll try trimming. That is old school. When I first started playing 35 years ago I'd hear about old players who always soaked their harps before playing (sometimes in booze) and trimed the comb teeth when they swelled. That sounded silly to me back then.
As Adam says in the video, soaking a harp is a good way to hasten its demise. But I think I'll carry an X-acto knife in my kit.
I like custom harps very much, but I also like the tone (and low cost) of a stock Marine Band. I'll try this and see how it works. Thanks again for finding this video.
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-Rick Davis
Blues Harp Amps Blog
Roadhouse Joe Blues Band
Last Edited by on Jan 04, 2010 7:11 PM
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congaron
384 posts
Jan 04, 2010
7:33 PM
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I found that only certain areas where i spend extra practice time swelled. For me, it was overblow practice on holes 4-6 and the two tines between those three holes. Even tongue-blocking practice after the initial trimming hasn't caused swelling beyond that. No soaking, just real practice for a long time..normal ops.
In fact, only my A harp has ever swelled enough to matter. It was my first marine band. Apparently i control my spit better now...lol.
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bluemoon
11 posts
Jan 04, 2010
7:45 PM
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I stumbled across this article some time back and have been a little aprehensive about doing any comb sealing since.
http://www.angelfire.com/music/harmonica/sealants.html
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barbequebob
293 posts
Jan 05, 2010
8:47 AM
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Which sealing agent to use has always been one of the reasons why Hohner had always hesitated to seal the comb. Another thing to remember is that certain sealants work better with ceertain woods than others and some woods don't take sealants well or at all.
If you cut that comb, be very careful because you don't want splinters on your lips, tongue, or swallowing them.
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Sincerely,
Barbeque Bob Maglinte
Boston, MA
http://www.barbequebob.com
CD available at http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/bbmaglinte
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Rick Davis
45 posts
Jan 05, 2010
2:59 PM
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Thanks for pointing out the obvious, bob...
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-Rick Davis
Blues Harp Amps Blog
Roadhouse Joe Blues Band
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MrVerylongusername
762 posts
Jan 05, 2010
3:42 PM
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Rick, I had a problem with swelling combs and tried cutting the tines back. Problem is they shrink back again as they dry out so you need to rehydrate them and getting that right so the tines are flush again can be a bit unreliable.
Ever since then I've been a fan of plastic combs, but I have sealed a couple of MBs - the worst mineral oil can do is 'loosen' things a little if you get my drift!
Last Edited by on Jan 05, 2010 3:43 PM
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Rick Davis
46 posts
Jan 05, 2010
6:39 PM
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MrVLUN-
Yep, I thought that might become a problem. I'll try it on one D Marine Band harp I'm using for gigs right now. It gets played a lot and is starting to swell. I bought an X-acto knife to trim the teeth and we'll see what happens.
Hey, if Adam Gussow does it then I'd say it's worth a shot...
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-Rick Davis
Blues Harp Amps Blog
Roadhouse Joe Blues Band
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MrVerylongusername
768 posts
Jan 05, 2010
11:43 PM
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My bad experience was from 20 years ago when I was starting out - so I was both a very wet player (still am though) and in my ignorance, probably a bit over zealous. I probably cut back too far.
Another other factor was that it was an odd key that I didn't play that much - giving it long periods of time between playings to dry out.
It's worth a shot I guess!
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harpwrench
138 posts
Jan 06, 2010
3:23 PM
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It would make the most sense to take advantage of Chris' deal on sealed combs, IMO.
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toddlgreene
359 posts
Jan 07, 2010
5:11 AM
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Ditto harpwrench. Save yourself a lot of aggravation and time in either sealing your own or trying to carve a meerschaum pipe out of a harmonica comb. I'm fortunate to have mine done for me, but I'm gonna grab up some Buddha combs to keep around for when I finally get my hands on some prewar MBs. Scrap those stock combs, or put them aside to seal later. Stick some sealed combs in there and replace those *&%*ing nails with some bolts. If you wanna go the route of sealing them yourself, salad bowl finish(non-toxic when dry, and it won't make you shit like a goose)rocks.
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~Todd L. Greene
crescentcityharmonicaclub@gmail.com
Last Edited by on Jan 07, 2010 5:50 AM
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Rick Davis
52 posts
Jan 07, 2010
9:59 AM
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Todd, won't you need to drill the reed plates to use bolts instead of nails to fasten it to the comb?
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-Rick Davis
Blues Harp Amps Blog
Roadhouse Joe Blues Band
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toddlgreene
379 posts
Jan 07, 2010
10:08 AM
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To use the bolts my guy does(2mm-10 or 2mm-12), yes.
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~Todd L. Greene
crescentcityharmonicaclub@gmail.com
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