MrHarper
2 posts
Sep 15, 2013
7:34 AM
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Gussows version of "Crossroads" is one of my favorite one-man band harp pieces and I'm trying to figure out how to play it.
Listen to it here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KeMis-B7f58
I downloaded it from YouTube via a free software and then slowed it down (via the software Transcribe!) according to a great tip from some video from Gussow.
With the help from a friend we now think that we've managed to substract all notes, however how the bars come in the end intrigues us.
Until bar 10 it seems to be a regular 12-bar, four beats in each bar. Bar 10 then could be regular.
Then bar 11 seems that it lacks a beat or something and were lost from here.
Does anybody know what's happening? Is it perhaps played freestyle somehow and lacks a regular structure in the end?
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The Iceman
1150 posts
Sep 15, 2013
10:43 AM
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I hear the form mostly. There was one spot that could have been a dropped or added beat, but I'd have to listen a few times to be sure.
At what point do you hear the break down?
btw, it's great playing and singing. Sometimes the harmonica solo is not rooted in cement to the beat, as phrases are delayed or moved a bit, which is real good music making.
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The Iceman
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Baker
328 posts
Sep 16, 2013
5:46 AM
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Hi MrHarper.
I think I know what you're getting at. It does all fall into the 12bar form "correctly". I think what might be confusing you is that the fills (the harp parts between each vocal phrase) are starting "later" in the phrase than they "should". – I love complex rhythmical stuff like this but it is quite tricky to get your head around.
If you count out the 12 bar passages listening to the kick drum you'll find it fits "correctly".
So what is going on? Where you would normally start the phrasing for the harp fills, there is still singing happening. "I went down to the cross roads, fell done on my knees." – The riff would normally start where the word "Knees" starts. Have a listen and try and imagine playing the riff starting at this point. So as a one man set up Adam is holding off on the riff while he finishes the vocal line, then dropping into the riff part of the way through so it's still sitting correctly in the 12bar progression.
Each verse made up of 12 bars. 2 bars of singing followed by 2 bars of harp playing. This happens three time. 4 x 3 = 12. Singing on bars 1–2, harp on 3–4. However the last word of each line falls in the 1st beat of bar 3, cutting into the space where the riff would normally start.
I hope this make sense.
Last Edited by Baker on Sep 16, 2013 6:20 AM
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MrHarper
3 posts
Sep 16, 2013
10:34 AM
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The Iceman: The "break down" would start between bar 10 and 11 if hear it right.
On bar 9 he seems to hit the V chord (-1 -2b -1 -2b -1) on the harp.
Then he's going down to IV chord at bar 10.
Bar 10 is then finished by two draw chords (I think) in a row followed by hole 2 draw and then some subtle chords.
Then a turnover is started at -2b and now I cannot get the things together.
Lets tab it here and see if we can sort this out:
Bar 9| -1. -2b. -1 -2b -1. .
Bar 10| 1. 2 -2 -3b. -2 -5. -4 4 [-3 -4]. [-3 -4]
Bar ?.1| -2 . [subtle chords]
Bar ?.2 (turnover)| -2b. -2 -3b -2 -3b. 4
Bar ?.3 (turnover)| -2b. -2 -3b -2 -2b. -2bb -1. -1
A dot represents a beat and a note immidietaley followed by a dot starts on a downbeat.
Now bar 10 already contains 4 beats.
Bar ?.2 and ?.2 could probably be merged if the -1's are cut off, and then the 1's could form half a bar or something.
However that -2 after bar 10 irritatingly stays put, refusing to fit into the puzzle. Explanations?
Baker: Hello Baker.
Thank you for a long and detailed answer. See above for more details on what I hear in the cut.
EDIT: Missed a sign on the tab
Last Edited by MrHarper on Sep 16, 2013 10:36 AM
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The Iceman
1156 posts
Sep 16, 2013
10:54 AM
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need a time stamp reference....
bar 9 and bar 10 happen about 40 times in this tune.
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The Iceman
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MrHarper
4 posts
Sep 16, 2013
11:43 AM
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It's from the beginning of the song until Adam starts singing.
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The Iceman
1157 posts
Sep 16, 2013
11:47 AM
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there is no problem whatsoever with the form. It follows the 12 bar format, each bar has 4 beats.
I don't hear what you are hearing.
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The Iceman
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MrHarper
5 posts
Sep 16, 2013
1:05 PM
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If a new bar begins when the vocals do, the harp part lacks one beat to be a "regular twelve bar". Focus on bars 9-12 and you'll hear 15 beats not 16, before the singing start on an upbeat.
What makes most sense to my ears is that bar 11 only contains 3 beats.
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The Iceman
1158 posts
Sep 16, 2013
1:19 PM
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I've been at this for quite a while.
All I hear is the proper form, proper beats/measure.
Maybe someone else can help you.
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The Iceman
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MrHarper
6 posts
Sep 16, 2013
1:34 PM
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Hmm well the first beat of the vocals could be included to make a complete 12 bar.
Why it didn't make sense to me in the first place is because that takes away the stress from the first beat in some of the last bars.
For me, a guy who likes regular structures and programming, it doesn't make sense to suddenly start stressing other beats than before and include one single beat of vocals into otherwise 12 bars of exclusively harp.
However when hearing how good it sounds it all fits together alot better :)
I read on WikiPedia that is called a kind of syncopation:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beat_(music)#Downbeat
I'm happy if anybody could enlighten me more about this way of making music.
Gussow, make a video about it :)
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JInx
535 posts
Sep 16, 2013
2:03 PM
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I'm not sure, but I think he's using cut time(?)on the drums and a 4/4 on the harp. Boom chick boom chick 1 2 1 2 combined with the crossroads blues
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Sun, sun, sun
Burn, burn, burn
Soon, soon, soon
Moon, moon, moon
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timeistight
1378 posts
Sep 16, 2013
2:05 PM
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It's very common for a melody to start before the downbeat of bar 1. It's called a "pickup". In this case "I went" is the pickup and "down" is the first beat of the bar.
Last Edited by timeistight on Sep 16, 2013 2:12 PM
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1847
1076 posts
Sep 16, 2013
2:15 PM
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For me, a guy who likes regular structures and programming,
perhaps you might consider taking up golf?
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there's a new sheriff in town
i get a lot of request when i play my harmonica
"but i play it anyway"
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Blues13
211 posts
Sep 16, 2013
2:25 PM
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I bought the lesson and it's a regular 12 bar, 1aaa2aaa3aaa4aaa. The song starts on the first beat of the 1 bar. Maybe you should buy the lesson.
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Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent.
Isaac Asimov
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Zadozica
264 posts
Sep 16, 2013
2:26 PM
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I agree, buy the lesson and give Adam his due.
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Baker
329 posts
Sep 17, 2013
2:48 AM
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The Iceman and timeistight are right, it does fit the form "correctly" but the measures don't start on the first word of the line, there is a pick up:
Pick up = "I went" ... "down" = is on the 1st beat of the 1st bar.
"Trying to flag a" ... "ride" = is on the 1st beat of the 3rd bar.
Try counting listening only to the kick drum, don't let the vocals or the harp guide your ear. You'll find it fits.
This IS part of what syncopation is, and is a major characteristic of lots blues music. e.g..
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Got my mojo working – Muddy waters
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8hEYwk0bypY
Pick up = "Got my"... "mojo" is on the 1st beat of the 1st bar.
"But it just don't work on" ... "you" = is on the 1st beat of the 3rd bar.
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Hound Dog – Big Mama Thornton
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M4tILEQ5dDM
Pick up = "You ain't nothing but a" ... "hound dog" = is on the 1st beat of the 1st bar.
"Been snooping round my" ... "door" = is on the 1st beat of the 3rd bar.
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Sometimes the vocal phrases don't start before the first beat, but just after:
I've got the blues all over me – Jerry McCain
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=32etJhWLfNA
1st Beat 1st bar ... "I've got the blues" ... "1st Beat 2nd bar" ... "I've got the blues all over me".
On the first three examples, where the last word of the vocal line is cutting into the 3rd bar I think is what is confusing your ear slightly, due to having to work it in a one man band set up – (See my comments above).
Syncopation is a fundamental characteristic of blues music. It's quite tricky to get your head around when trying to think about it logically. You kind of need to learn how to feel it.
I would definitely suggest buying Adam's lesson as I think it will help clarify some of this.
Last Edited by Baker on Sep 17, 2013 2:51 AM
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MrHarper
7 posts
Sep 17, 2013
9:33 AM
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1847: Yeah but I like music too :)
Baker: Aha! Great answer, I really learned something new here.
As you're saying I suppose it's something to learn gradually by time.
Where can I find that lesson you an others are mentioning?
Last Edited by MrHarper on Sep 17, 2013 9:36 AM
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Pistolcat
519 posts
Sep 17, 2013
9:55 AM
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Hi mrHarper! Take a look in the sidebar to the left of the posts. Click the line that says 'The store: videos and tabs' :)
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Pistolkatt - Pistolkatts youtube
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kudzurunner
4260 posts
Sep 17, 2013
3:32 PM
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I'm flattered that you're giving my version of the song so much attention. On bars 9 and 10, I'm trying to get some of the flavor of Clapton's guitar fill on the same bars of the intro section of the live Cream version. I play that badly on guitar; when you switch instruments, interesting things happen.
Yes, I do sell a tab sheet and it is an exact transcription of what I play--or 99% accurate. It will clear up most of the mysteries.
http://www.tradebit.com/filedetail.php/110418733-crossroads-blues-pdf
Baker, you're exactly right. The word "down" is on the downbeat of bar 1.
I have occasionally been known to add or drop a beat--I do it not once but twice in "Down Ain't Out," of the same album--but I don't do it on "Crossroads."
Last Edited by kudzurunner on Sep 17, 2013 3:41 PM
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