kudzurunner
4244 posts
Sep 09, 2013
7:04 PM
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In response to my query, the producer of (and drummer on) James Cotton's new album, COTTON MOUTH MAN, Tom Hambridge, was nice enough to tell all. Here's what he wrote:
"To answer your question about how I recorded him and how I got those sounds here goes:
First of all let me say that it is an honor to produce great artists like James Cotton. He trusts me with his sound and that allows me the freedom to be very creative with how I capture it all. I recorded the album at Soundstage Studios in Nashville TN (the main room) I always have the artist I'm working with record "live" with the band with me on drums directing the proceedings. I had a great group of musicians including Chuck Leavell on keyboards, Rob McNelly on guitar and Glenn Worf on upright bass just to name a few. I had James in a vocal booth so his harp would be isolated. There was a window so I could see him as we tracked on the floor. I recorded James' harp direct to Pro Tools through a Shure SM57. During mixing my engineer Michael Saint-Leon and I experimented with the original track. We re-amped him through a Vox Cambridge amp recorded with a close mic and a room mic, printed that to two tracks and mixed in the DI track to varying degrees for each song. That is how I recorded the song "Cotton Mouth Man".
For some of the other songs on the album I added a SansAmp plug."
So there you have it. There's lots of food for thought here. Please discuss! We're lucky that a studio pro was nice enough to share his trade secrets. (News flash: not all of them do.)
Hambridge is Grammy-award-winning producer, songwriter and drummer. You can find out more about him at www.tomhambridge.com
To remind of you of the cut we're talking about, here it is:
Last Edited by kudzurunner on Sep 09, 2013 7:07 PM
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hooktool
78 posts
Sep 09, 2013
8:29 PM
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That is such a great album. The recording tech Tom Hambridge shared makes more sense to other folks here, but its fun to learn about it. I may put the album on now.
John
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Jehosaphat
539 posts
Sep 09, 2013
8:54 PM
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L
Love the boogie on the cotton mouth track but James harp ain't good
Sounds like Biker harp to me.
He was one of the greats but he doesn't cut it anymore.It's sad but we will all have to give up sometime.
This embed just confirms it to me.
Solo starts about 3.03
Last Edited by Jehosaphat on Sep 09, 2013 10:50 PM
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didjcripey
611 posts
Sep 10, 2013
12:01 AM
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@Jehosaphat:perhaps what you say is true, but I think its disrespectful to point it out. He's an old man, at the end of his time. He should be revered and appeciated as one of the last original living legends.
Just my opinion.
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Lucky Lester
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tf10music
175 posts
Sep 10, 2013
1:09 AM
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That's pretty creative. I've never played harp in a vocal booth -- for anybody who has, does it make a significant difference? I know for vocals it gives you a very 'neutral' raw take to work with, but i imagine harmonica is less dependent on perfect sound absorption than vocals are.
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Check out my music at http://bmeyerson11.bandcamp.com/
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colman
260 posts
Sep 10, 2013
4:52 AM
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There`s too much great James Cotton harp for me to find fault here or any where he blows blues,I have learned more from him than any other master over the years.so do it to it James...
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arnenym
199 posts
Sep 10, 2013
5:11 AM
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It does not sound as he use to do.. So what?
Sometimes it seems like the harp players is just a bunch of grumpy old men who just want to hear the same old song recorded again with the same sound but with another musician.
I love this album.
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HarpNinja
3440 posts
Sep 10, 2013
5:32 AM
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It sounded really metallic on my computer until I put it through decent speakers. Then is sounded much better.
Interesting that they didn't use any straight amped harp. Anyone catch the SansAmp reference? That stuff smokes the digital stuff, IMO.
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Mantra Customized Harmonicas
My Website
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6SN7
363 posts
Sep 10, 2013
5:47 AM
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That's interesting how they recording the harp. A couple of years ago when my band made a CD, my harp was stuck out in the hall with one mic next to the speaker and another mic positioned 10 feet in the air. The engineer then mixed the two channels.
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timeistight
1359 posts
Sep 10, 2013
5:47 AM
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"Interesting that they didn't use any straight amped harp."
Yes they did. They ran the harp track through tube amp with two microphones on it:I recorded James' harp direct to Pro Tools through a Shure SM57. During mixing my engineer Michael Saint-Leon and I experimented with the original track. We re-amped him through a Vox Cambridge amp recorded with a close mic and a room mic, printed that to two tracks and mixed in the DI track to varying degrees for each song. That is how I recorded the song "Cotton Mouth Man".
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HarpNinja
3442 posts
Sep 10, 2013
6:38 AM
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That is not straight amped harp. That's run a track through an amp.
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Mantra Customized Harmonicas
My Website
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HarpNinja
3443 posts
Sep 10, 2013
6:45 AM
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I wish I had more studio experience, but for the limited amount, I've worked with some great people in great studios.
Two times the harp was amped and miked in a vocal booth, it turned out ok. Both times it was in a room with multiple mics, it came out way better.
One studio just took the amped track. The other tooked a DI track similar to what is described above. IMO, I thought the mix of amp/room/direct was best.
Oh yeah, I did record one time straight and the amped tone was added later. That turned out sorta like the Cotton track - not a tone I'd go for live, but really edgy and metallic.
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Mantra Customized Harmonicas
My Website
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timeistight
1360 posts
Sep 10, 2013
6:47 AM
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Whether you run a signal from a mic through an amp before recording it, or you record the signal first and then run it through an amp and re-record it, you're still recording amped harp.
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kudzurunner
4246 posts
Sep 10, 2013
6:54 AM
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I was slightly confused by Hambridge's comments on that last point. If I understand him correctly, Cotton played the harp part only once, live in the studio, and directly into the board. Then Hambridge and his engineer fed the harp channel of that just-recorded track into an amp and miked that amp both close and far (i.e., with a room mic). This gave them a total of three harp sounds: straight into the board, close-miked through the amp, and room-miked through the amp. Those two latter amped-up sounds were not, however, what most of us mean by "straight amped harp," which is to say Cotton playing through a mic that was actually plugged INTO an amp.
A relevant point is whether the engineer used a tube preamp as part of the "board" harp sound. In the studio where I just recorded, each input to the board--each channel: harp, vocals, percussion, guitar--went through its own dedicated tube-powered preamp stage. Although a harp mike plugged into such a preamp doesn't have quite the same qualities as a harp plugged into the tube preamp stage of a harp amp.....well, neither are the two signals entirely dissimilar.
It's an interesting way of doing business, regardless. Among other things, it means that volume can be kept low during the original recording but then the harp signal can be pumped into a cranked-up amp after the other musicians have left. Because of course Hambridge COULD have split Cotton's harp mike signal right off the bat, running half into the board and half into the amp. But he probably couldn't have cranked up Cotton's amp with Cotton right in the booth. This way of doing things sidestepped that problem.
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HarpNinja
3444 posts
Sep 10, 2013
6:56 AM
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Yeah, but not straight. Simply the level at which you hit the amp creates a unique variable. You can also have compression, eq, etc. there that wasn't originally.
Even if they simply took a totally unprocessed signal (which is impossible because the straight to mixer harp had to go through some sort of preamp), I double someone took the time to ensure the level at which it went to the amp was consistent with plugging straight in.
IMO, it is a super cool way to lay down a great harp track and then experiment to find the right sound in post production rather than taking recording time to do take after take to set up mics, etc.
***EDIT: Posted the same time as Adam with similar thoughts.
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Mantra Customized Harmonicas
My Website
Last Edited by HarpNinja on Sep 10, 2013 6:57 AM
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blueswannabe
269 posts
Sep 10, 2013
12:13 PM
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" First of all let me say that it is an honor to produce great artists like James Cotton. He trusts me with his sound and that allows me the freedom to be very creative with how I capture it all."
I found this bit of information to be very interesting. Cotton didn't say I want a particualr mic or a tube amp or I want this tube amp and not that tube amp. The man just went in there and played like the giant that he is (It probably sounded fantastic accoustically)and then left it in capable hands. It is also interesting that there is a metallic quality to the sound of the harp that's really hot. This may lead to imitations further on down the line. It's creative and pushes the boundaries. It was a type of sound you didn't expect although you could recogize that it was indeed Cotton.
Last Edited by blueswannabe on Sep 10, 2013 12:16 PM
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timeistight
1362 posts
Sep 10, 2013
12:44 PM
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Wikipedia's Re-amp page.
I guess, technically, you aren't getting "straight amped harp" with this technique, but by that argument you aren't getting "straight amped harp" when you're patched through a pedal either.
Last Edited by timeistight on Sep 10, 2013 12:47 PM
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timeistight
1363 posts
Sep 10, 2013
3:29 PM
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If "straight amped harp" means nothing but wire between the mic and the amp, then, no, reamping isn't "straight amped harp". But then you can't "straight amped harp" with an SM57; you need at least a transformer between it and a high impedance amp.
Here's a Wikipedia article on reamping.
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garry
432 posts
Sep 10, 2013
6:54 PM
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@blueswannabe: in my experience, he plays the same way. shows up, throws his harps on a velvet lined plate, and plays through a 57 straight to the PA. and sounds like james cotton. he sort of anchors one end of the perennial "gear does/doesn't matter" debate.
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Todd Parrott
1148 posts
Sep 10, 2013
10:32 PM
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Recording amplified harp in this manner, as well as the way HarpNinja describes it, is really a quite common method, especially for guitar. And even if you do plan to plug in and play through your amp, it's always a good idea to also capture a clean signal in case you're not happy with the sound of the recorded amp. As HarpNinja stated:
"IMO, it is a super cool way to lay down a great harp track and then experiment to find the right sound in post production rather than taking recording time to do take after take to set up mics, etc."
Very true, and the possibilities are endless. And there are preamps that are very clean and don't color the sound, which are good for capturing the clean signal. And besides the SansAmp plugin, notice what else the engineer said:
"We re-amped him through a Vox Cambridge amp recorded with a close mic and a room mic, printed that to two tracks and mixed in the DI track to varying degrees for each song."
The clean signal was mixed in to varying degrees, along with the amped signal, which may be the metallic sound that some of you are hearing. Point being, that again, this is a cool way to capture the harp because you have so many options afterward.
Last Edited by Todd Parrott on Sep 10, 2013 10:37 PM
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