Rick Davis
2200 posts
Aug 06, 2013
10:46 AM
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So, I went to a couple jams while on vacation. Let me tell you about one of them:
It was scheduled to start at 7:30. I arrived a little early and asked the guy setting up where the list was. He muttered that there was no list, and the band would play for an hour before calling up any jammers. He asked me what instrument I play and seemed annoyed when I told him.
Hmmmmmm...
By 9:15 the host band still had not started and they said they still planned to play for an hour. My friends and I left at that point.
Worst jam ever? Maybe.
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-Little Rick Davis
The Blues Harp Amps Blog
The Mile High Blues Society
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Last Edited by Rick Davis on Aug 06, 2013 10:46 AM
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blueswannabe
243 posts
Aug 06, 2013
2:09 PM
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Rick, I feel your pain.
Disorganized bullcrap. I had the same bad jam experiences. No discipline and no structure. This particular jam session that I was trying to play at but could not had an a..hole guitar player as the leader who wanted to play loud and often. He had no respect for harp palyers but would put his buddies at the top of the list even though they would come in two hours late..(Hey I got better things to do then wait around for several hours for my turn), and then expressed frustration to me when I inquired poiltely as to when I could get a chance only to hear him say there are 6 too many harp players tonight. I suggested to have some of the harp players get up together. He didn't think this was a good idea and just took his buddie who arrived last. I'm all for paying your dues, don't get me wrong. But this dude was an a..hole, stevie ray vaughan wannabe. I stopped going to this jam session..it was pointless.
As you can tell, it still burns me up.
Last Edited by blueswannabe on Aug 06, 2013 2:11 PM
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rbeetsme
1326 posts
Aug 06, 2013
3:32 PM
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Boisenberry, or maybe Plum.
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BronzeWailer
1106 posts
Aug 06, 2013
5:02 PM
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Highway outside of Tokyo, long weekend, 1986. Before the bubble burst and the population started declining. I was on a trip to inspect a resort near Mt. Fuji I was meant to be writing advertising copy about. My boss was fulminating against the guys pi$$ing by the side of the road. I'd had too much coffee and busting myself...
BronzeWailer's YouTube
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Kingley
2990 posts
Aug 07, 2013
1:07 AM
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Rick - It sounds pretty much like an average jam in the UK. I experience that kind of crap on a weekly basis. You guys that live in Denver and California don't realise how good you have things. You're in a veritable blues jam paradise compared to most of us.
Last Edited by Kingley on Aug 07, 2013 1:08 AM
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dmitrysbor
87 posts
Aug 07, 2013
5:19 AM
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Nobody respects harpers, yeah? It's time to disguise as saxophonist ;)
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Rick Davis
2204 posts
Aug 07, 2013
7:16 AM
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Kingley, that bad jam was in California, but not the bay area. Blues jams around SF are legendary.
All the blues jams I know in the Denver area -- and there are 15 blues jams on the calendar this week -- have a list for the jammers, they start on time, and they respect harp players. In Denver there is a pretty fierce but friendly competition among blues jams. The consumers (jammers) have lots of choices.
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-Little Rick Davis
The Blues Harp Amps Blog
The Mile High Blues Society
Tip Jar
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Rgsccr
192 posts
Aug 07, 2013
10:25 AM
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Same goes for the blues jams I go to in the Seattle area - Elmer's on Tuesdays (always) and Dawson's in Tacoma on Thursdays (once in a while). Well organized, everyone gets to play, no one is dissed. The same may be true of other jams around here - I haven't been to others. Plus, harp players are valued! One reason for this is the jam band includes a very good harp player, Jeff Mason. He is also a top trombone player (has been a pro at both since the 70s). He sets the bar high and gets the crowd into harp (and trombone) music. The other reason is the jam host, Billy Shew, is a terrific guy and a top musician (guitar/singer) himself. He's friends with all the best guys in the Puget Sound and always has a couple of top flight guests to add to the jam band which always includes him, Jeff Mason and Hank Yanda (one of the very best bass players anywhere). I've been going to the jam at Elmer's every week since last October, and I'd say 95% of the time every set is so good I'd pay to listen to it. While other music is played from time to time, real blues is the main thing, including tunes from T-Bone Walker, Sleepy John Estes, through Muddy and Wolf, and so on. Top area musicians drop in to jam regularly. And it is only ten minutes from my home! I am a lucky guy for sure. I am even getting asked what songs I want to play from time to time despite generally being the least experienced musician and a non-singer.
Last Edited by Rgsccr on Aug 07, 2013 10:28 AM
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Rick Davis
2205 posts
Aug 07, 2013
1:02 PM
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Rgscr- Seattle has a strong blues scene and a good blues society. The WIRED! band represented Washington Blues Society in the IBC in Memphis in 2012 and won it all. I am not surprised to hear there are good blues jams in town.
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-Little Rick Davis
The Blues Harp Amps Blog
The Mile High Blues Society
Tip Jar
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ReedSqueal
464 posts
Aug 07, 2013
1:19 PM
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I went to a BLUES JAM that was well established, well at least I had seen it published for many years but had never been. So I decided to step out of my comfort zone and try this particular jam. I showed up, took a seat. I watched - and listened to the house band. The were playing jazz. JAZZ! Not that there is anything wrong with that but it was advertised as BLUES jam.
So I thought I'd wait until they took a break to speak with the host. In the mean time, one other jammer shows up with a case, with a sax in it. The band takes a break, then I wait for (maybe) the host to stop talking shop and meet the new guy (me) Nope. So I wait patiently to interject without interrupting them talking jazz. No luck. He then starts the band up again, they play more jazz. Then they call up the guy next to me with the sax. More jazz. I wait again for about 45 minutes to the next break.
I introduce myself and ask if they play any blues. He thinks about it, looks to the ceiling and says "hmmm, sometimes"
I then ask if they tolerate harp players (in retrospect probably not the best way to position myself) He laughs and says "I put harp players on the same level as banjo players" and everyone had a good laugh. (except me)
I left. No other jammers showed up in the 2 hours that I was there. When I walked out the door, I saw a blank sign up sheet on the clipboard. I never went back.
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Go ahead and play the blues if it'll make you happy.
-Dan Castellaneta
Last Edited by ReedSqueal on Aug 07, 2013 1:20 PM
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SuperBee
1343 posts
Aug 07, 2013
2:26 PM
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I reckon it would help to have a good harp man in the house band. I went to one with an average harp player in the house band, and I formed the impression he didn't respect his own instrument. He also played guitar and sax and was the vocalist. I noticed all the jamming harp players sounded poor. When I had a go I gained some insight. We all had to use the house rig. 520DX direct to PA mixed muddy, and monitored through the vocal wedge. Basically very hard to hear on stage. I ran through my piece acoustically on the street with the guitarist and singer I'd been put with, and it sounded cool, they were both happy. On stage I just couldn't deliver. Reminded me of why I started buying mics and amps. When I heard the house band play I noticed even their harp player sounded poor in the mix, though he had obviously rehearsed enough to not be so dependant on the monitor...but also, as the vocalist, he was right in front of the monitor. All the jamming harpers were set out on the edge of the ensemble.
Usually around here I've met sound engineers who leave the harp eq'd very toppy, but this was just as bad the other way. Just mud. If I go to this jam again (it's actually pretty good and friendly) I'm gonna lead a couple songs, and talk to the boss about a harp amp. Maybe the Princeton Reverb would be enough
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1847
958 posts
Aug 07, 2013
2:54 PM
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so where in california was that at?
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master po
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ReedSqueal
465 posts
Aug 07, 2013
3:16 PM
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@1847 If your question was directed at me, the jam was (still is) in Rancho Cordova, Ca. (Near Sacramento)
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Go ahead and play the blues if it'll make you happy.
-Dan Castellaneta
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John95683
91 posts
Aug 07, 2013
3:32 PM
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Reedsqueal- was the jam at Louie's, by any chance? Their Wednesday night jam does suck, although their first Sunday jam is pretty good. If you're in the Sacramento area again, try the Tuesday night blues jam at the Elk Grove Sports Bar. Run by a guy named Gary Mendoza, good harp player and excellent singer. All blues, all the time.
Last Edited by John95683 on Aug 07, 2013 3:36 PM
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1847
959 posts
Aug 07, 2013
3:34 PM
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i was referring to the jam rick went to
may save me some gas money
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master po
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Rgsccr
193 posts
Aug 07, 2013
3:37 PM
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Yes, SuperBee, Jeff Mason is very good on both harp and trombone - he spent some time playing with Albert Collins on tour and opened for Butterfield and others. Plus, the sound man at Elmer's is very much on his side so they get things set up very well for harp. Jeff sometimes plays through a vocal mic and sometimes through his Victoria Bandmaster. He also plays through a clip-on wireless mic on the trombone. He does set the bar high, but we also get a number of other high level harp players showing up. At first, this intimidated me, but over time it has definitely made me better.
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ReedSqueal
466 posts
Aug 07, 2013
5:57 PM
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@John95683 - Yes! Louie's for sure. yeah, that Wednesday night jam seems to have a bad reputation lol.
I know Gary, he used to do a blues jam in Folsom once a week. Until the bar that hosted the jam at got raided and shut down by the Feds.
Gary fosters a program for youth in the blues and there are always a couple of those kids at just about every jam that Gary hosts. Some great talent for sure. Mostly guitar players.
He used to showcase Kyle Rowland (harp) but something happened between the two of them. I see Kyle at least once a week at various open mics and jams. Kyle and his band opened for Johnny Winter a few weeks ago. Kyle did great. Although I lost some hearing thanks to Johnny Winter.
And yes, Gary is a fantastic singer. He's got a great voice.
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Go ahead and play the blues if it'll make you happy.
-Dan Castellaneta
Last Edited by ReedSqueal on Aug 07, 2013 6:01 PM
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JInx
486 posts
Aug 07, 2013
6:18 PM
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that is some bad jams, yup.
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Sun, sun, sun
Burn, burn, burn
Soon, soon, soon
Moon, moon, moon
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John95683
92 posts
Aug 07, 2013
6:58 PM
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Reedsqeal- it sounds like you live in the Sacramento area. I live in Rancho Murieta, and play at Gary's jam in Elk Grove quite often. Maybe I'll see you there some time.
BTW, Kyle Rowland, at age 19, is going to be a star if he wants it. What a great talent!
John
Last Edited by John95683 on Aug 07, 2013 7:00 PM
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Tweedaddict
89 posts
Aug 07, 2013
7:39 PM
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@Rgsccr
Jeff has a nasty temper.
Watch out for that 'evil eye', he only looks at you funny when he's reeel angry... :)
But seriously... Jeff Can PLAY!
I believe Albert smiled and called him 'college boy'
The only time I met Albert he just F'n frowned at me.
Jeff's a lucky so and so. AND can PLAY.
Cheers!
Mike
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Rgsccr
194 posts
Aug 07, 2013
8:35 PM
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That he (Jeff) can. And I have not only escaped his evil eye but he has been very helpful and encouraging. He did tell me about Albert Collins calling him "college boy." Not to highjack this thread, but one thing I've noticed about Jeff's playing is that it is more lyrical, or melodic than many blues guys. I've wondered if this is influenced by his trombone playing? It just seems like he comes up with different (not necessarily better, but interesting) runs up and down the harp than one often hears. Obviously, not many guys here know Jeff Mason, but he isn't the only horn playing harp player, so maybe others have noticed such influences.
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jbone
1325 posts
Aug 08, 2013
4:20 AM
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I've seen some fairly ridiculous jams both here in Little Rock area and in Denton and Dallas TX. Those were partly early days for me and I frankly was not so good yet. But that fact aside, some hosts have one bad experience with a harp guy or a keyboard guy or a zither guy or a spoon guy and they get an attitude. Everyone after that is subject to pay some dues to get on a stage.
When I have hosted a jam I have always tried my best to make contact with anyone who signed up, feel them out, and get them on stage. If they were not so good I would still try and give them some space and time live, to work on their chops and tone. Very seldom have I ever blown anyone off or hustled them back off stage, and very seldom did I get complaints.
Jolene and I took a trip in April, to St. Louis to catch Bob Dylan. Something of a bucket list item. The show was on Tuesday night and we headed up on Monday. We settled in our hotel and looked up the two jams listed for St. Louis- She found them someplace- and skipped the first one. May have been a rough part of town. The other was in the Grove section, sort of a night spot miracle mile. I don't recall the name of the place but it listed the jam as from 8 or 9 til close. We walk in and there's a bartender and maybe 2 people at the bar. We ask where the jam is and he points us to the guy at the end of the bar so we go say hi and ask again. Dude says "YOU'RE the jam, come on I'll set you up!" He plugs us into house DI box and we get to play 6 or 8 songs as the place begins filling up. Good sound and nice folks who appreciated some old duo format blues Jo and I have developed for years now.
We got finished and I bought Jo a beer and we watched the next guy. This was not strictly a blues night and the next guy was a folk-study-his-navel-and-tell-us-what-he-found kind of guy. We headed to our digs since we'd driven several hours and then explored later as well.
Over all that was a nice night out. The added bonus was, the host had run video and posted it for us on youtube, and it came out very good!
I could do a litany of the injustices I and also my duo partner have suffered. If you do this long enough and depend on the kindness of strangers too much before you get your head right, you WILL be frustrated and pissed off, or you aren't doing something right. I think this happens to people so they can develop a thicker hide, which you need to p;lay in public anyway.
I have certain standards. I deserve respect and when I walk in I don't act too cocky but more business-like. I have something to offer, want to see and hear it? No? Ok. Yes? GREAT, let's jam! I have found that some indifference comes in handy. So does having a discerning eye and ear. Sometimes I will not even ask about getting on stage. I'm not one who will wait until 11:45 and get up with just whoever is left usually. I am plenty good enough to front for a few songs or I can play quality sideman stuff as well.
I will try and get there a bit early and check out the house band. I like a list. I represent myself and my duo partner pretty well and get a good response. If the house guy has an attitude even then I will sometimes try and get a spot on stage. Show the people something!
As musicians we will face rejection and difficult situations, whether we play on the street or to a packed house and whether we're amateurs or pros, old hands or beginners. It's just the facts of musical life. We do well to have a good product but also we do well to have a slightly thick skin to handle hard situations.
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The Iceman
1072 posts
Aug 08, 2013
5:55 AM
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Playing through house system w/mic on stage, I always tell sound man to turn treble down and bass/mid at 12:00.
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The Iceman
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Rick Davis
2208 posts
Aug 08, 2013
8:18 AM
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The number one goal for a blues jam is to make money for the club.
The #2 goal is to put on a good show. The host must balance those two goals. I've been doing it for four years at Ziggies in Denver, so when I visit another jam I view it from the perspective of a host/manager as well as a player.
It is not about the soppy heartbreak of rejection or tough lessons learned. It is about competence. Starting more than an hour late and still insisting that the jammers wait another hour is dumb. It is abusing your consumers. That is the reason so many jams fail.
There are lots of different ways to run a jam. There is no "right" way. I did what a rational person would do at a crappy jam: I left and I won't go back.
BTW... I will be hosting with The Blues Allstars at Ziggies this Sunday. The jam will begin at 7pm. We will play for about 40 minutes and then start getting the jammers up. The jammers will play pretty much according to the order they signed up. Everybody plays and everybody has fun. The host band does a final set if time permits at around 11pm.
Some of the best players in Denver will show up. Most of the players will be regulars, with a few unknown newbees mixed in. Lots of fans, too. Last time a 4-piece band showed up and just killed on The Doors version of Back Door Man. Part of the fun is not knowing who will walk through the door.
Here is Dan Treanor at the jam a while back:
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-Little Rick Davis
The Blues Harp Amps Blog
The Mile High Blues Society
Tip Jar
Last Edited by Rick Davis on Aug 08, 2013 8:26 AM
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blueswannabe
246 posts
Aug 08, 2013
1:04 PM
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Rick I agree with you the first consideration should be making sure that the bar or club is making money. Otherwise what's the point of hosting a jam session or a blues band. However once you get over that hurdle a jam session should be run in an organized and orderly fashion To the maximum benefit of all. Otherwise don't call it a jam session just call it what it is a house band playing all night long which is fine by me. I have been to some jam sessions that are very well-run highly organized very popular and create a good mood and is a moneymaker for the club owner. It's like anything in life, if you have a job to do just do your freaking job right.
Last Edited by blueswannabe on Aug 08, 2013 1:27 PM
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harpletunnel
50 posts
Aug 09, 2013
8:22 AM
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Louie's in Rancho Cordova SUCKS. Advertised as a Blues jam and if you want to hear country or other genres and not Blues, go here. Harmonica not welcome.
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keep it in your mouth
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Rick Davis
2211 posts
Aug 09, 2013
9:15 AM
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The jam in the first post was at The San Juan Club in Fair Oaks, Jimmy Pailer host. WTF has happened to Jimmy? I had not seen him for a few years.
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-Little Rick Davis
The Blues Harp Amps Blog
The Mile High Blues Society
Tip Jar
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ReedSqueal
468 posts
Aug 09, 2013
1:33 PM
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@harpletunnel -- I know, I found out the hard way.
I should go back some night with harp rack... and a BANJO!
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Go ahead and play the blues if it'll make you happy.
-Dan Castellaneta
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John95683
93 posts
Aug 09, 2013
4:15 PM
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Rick- Jimmy Pailer is still at the San Juan Club on Thursday night. I've been to that jam, and the same thing happened to me.I left at 10 PM, and the band as still playing. The Club is a dump, and I won't be going back.
Last Edited by John95683 on Aug 09, 2013 4:19 PM
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Rick Davis
2212 posts
Aug 09, 2013
4:36 PM
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John, yeah it all sucked. And Jimmy did not look well. A lot has changed in six years. I used to go to his jam on Sunday nights at the Torch Club. It was good. Now the San Juan Club?
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-Little Rick Davis
The Blues Harp Amps Blog
The Mile High Blues Society
Tip Jar
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jbone
1326 posts
Aug 10, 2013
6:57 AM
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Rick you describe the most functional of jam setups and I tip my hat to you. I would hope to visit that jam one evening.
It's true, the jam idea is to bring business and cash across the bar. It's also about being on time, fielding a good team that plays well, and then moving jammers across the stage. Ideally the majority can have a great evening whether they are players or supporters or customers.
Hope to see you one day!
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wa7La7yYYeE
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garry
424 posts
Aug 11, 2013
1:20 PM
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@rick: you mentioned you host the ziggie's jam on alternate sundays. do you attend on weeks you're not hosting? i'll be in denver next sunday, and may stop by.
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Rick Davis
2214 posts
Aug 11, 2013
3:37 PM
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Yes, I often go to Doc's jam. I'll make a point of it next Sunday. See ya then!
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-Little Rick Davis
The Blues Harp Amps Blog
The Mile High Blues Society
Tip Jar
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