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Dirty-South Blues Harp forum: wail on! >
bends and overblow/draws cannot sound same tome
bends and overblow/draws cannot sound same tome
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walterharp
1146 posts
Jul 29, 2013
1:08 PM
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Hey all,
Having worked on tone of notes for years, I think one thing that has not been talked about much on this forum is the fact that due to the physical processes being different, both bends and overblow/draw involving 2 reeds, they must sound a little different than a straight blow or draw note. Even overblows by Levy have a slightly different tone, but if you listen carefully you can hear it on bends as well.
Now aside from the fact that they must sound different how? To my ear it is the overtones that make the tones different. Therefore it is easier to hear the difference in tone quality on lower harps and lower notes on a harp, because those overtones on the higher notes end up out of the hearing range.
Of course with practice you can get them close, but they will never have exactly the same tone, I think.
Cheers,
Walter
Comments?
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The Iceman
1059 posts
Jul 29, 2013
1:29 PM
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You are correct.
The challenge is to approach seamless sounding notes when playing the diatonic.
From a micro standpoint, it is probably not possible.
However, in a performance reality, you can get pretty darn close.
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The Iceman
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The Iceman
1060 posts
Jul 29, 2013
1:29 PM
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oops, posted twice accidentally.
Last Edited by The Iceman on Jul 29, 2013 1:30 PM
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HarpNinja
3396 posts
Jul 30, 2013
5:59 AM
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As belabored over and over in the many threads about overbends...
Blow notes don't have the same timbre as draw notes. Draw bends don't have the same timbre as either draw notes or blow notes. Blow bends don't have the same timbre as draw notes, blow notes, or draw bents, etc.
Every inherent "problem" with the technique and sound of overbending is the EXACT same as draw bending and blow bending...including the benefits of harmonica modification.
The perceived difference between traditional bending and overbending exists only due to closed mindsets and historical assumptions of the instrument.
Please remember that, just like overbending, the traditional draw and blow bends require two reeds and were popularized when missing notes were found by relative accident.
The 10-hole richter harmonica was not designed for bending. It was designed for chording on the bottom octave and melody playing in the other two. Just like with overbending, someone had to misuse the technology.
Due to the popularity of blues harmonica, which is not the most popular way to play harmonica, many assume otherwise. Again, though, every argument against overbending directly parallels that of any bending or valving - but many are conditioned to accept the latter as appropriate because of ignorance and hero worship.
This isn't an attack on anyone, including Walter, but the cold-hard, bitter truth. In fact, up until this point in the post, several people will be getting pissed off by what I am writing, although they'd give BBQ Bob's (true) comments on blowing too hard a thumbs up. They'd also tell you that gear makes no difference, but then be some of the most stubborn when it comes to using the right gear to amp up.
For some reason, it is hard to get harmonica players to confront the facts if they don't fit their immediate schema...well, probably because that is how human beings generally function.
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Last Edited by HarpNinja on Jul 30, 2013 6:00 AM
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HarpNinja
3397 posts
Jul 30, 2013
6:02 AM
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I'd also wager that many of us have learned riffs and solos by hearing the change in timbre between techniques and not that actual intervals.
For example, we hear the sound of a 3 draw bend on a C harp before we hear the pitch is Bb.
Back to the OP, they sound different because the harp is making the sound differently than say a simple blow note. Some of the change in tone is from the gaps or tolerenaces being tight or loose. Some of it is the attack of the note or how it is approached.
For example, a lot of players get the OB by slamming the reeds and you end up with a louder and more harsh sound to start. By contrast, if the reed profiles aren't set well, the note might sound thin and weak.
Generally, what I hear when an OB stands out is either the incorrect pitch or the slamming of reeds (I have this issue myself).
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Mantra Customized Harmonicas
My Website
Last Edited by HarpNinja on Jul 30, 2013 6:17 AM
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walterharp
1147 posts
Jul 30, 2013
7:27 AM
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actually mike, you are exactly agreeing with the point i was trying to make.. making all the notes sound exactly the same timbre is not possible, but with proper technique, you can get closer (if you want)
one of the things that occurs to me is that harps specifically set up for OB and OD with tight tolerances etc, seem to make the straight blow and draw notes sound more like the OB an OD notes, more of the overtones...
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HarpNinja
3398 posts
Jul 30, 2013
7:32 AM
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That is 100% correct. Live, there is so much going on that only some harp players will ever tell the difference between blow/draw/bent. If you play with any sort of compression or time effects, it is pretty easy to cover it up.
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Mantra Customized Harmonicas
My Website
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mlefree
121 posts
Jul 31, 2013
10:04 AM
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I'm not an overblower but think the same problem exists with valved bends. In years of playing half-valved diatonics, I have come to the conclusion that you sort of have to "dumb down" the tone of your two-reed bends and even your non-bent tone so that they better match the tone of your valved bent notes.
I'd be very interested in PT's take on that. I don't think I've ever asked him.
Thanks,
Michelle
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SilverWingLeather.com
email: mlefree@silverwingleather.com
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